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This is what my father has told me. He was born and raised in Wisconsin. His parents left the South during the Great Migration. My father does not like Mississippi and could never imagine living there. He is well aware of racism in Wisconsin and makes me aware that it exists there too. However, according to him, the mentality in the South is different. From his perspective, African-Americans are expected to "know the social order". That is the vibe that he gets.
green - I accept your father at his word. There would be no valid reason I can think of for him to "make things up." This thread seems to prove the old adage to me: "Those with the least to say tend to talk the most." Given the rep points you've wracked up here on C-D, it seems others tend to agree with you, as well.
Mississippi has one of the top 3 (if not number 1) most elected black officials of all states.
As a black male, I'd much rather be a black man in Mississippi, where there are blacks all over the state in large numbers so I wouldnt feel out of place pretty much anywhere there, rather than being in Wisconsin where if I drive outside of Milwaukee and Madison metro areas ....I'd be one of the only black faces around.
I know a mixed girl (mom white, dad black) who was born and raised partially in Milwaukee...but when her mom and dad split up, her mom left MIL and went back to her hometown (some small backwoods town about 2 hrs away).
She told me she faced all kinds of racism and being singled out for being one of the only "black" people around in town.
At least you wont have to go through that in Mississippi, being the blackest state.
I never said there wasn't racism up north. I am just saying it is a different kind in the North.
As late as 2008, there were places in Mississippi that were having segregated proms. Some places in Georgia as well.
In some parts of North Georgia, I have been the only Black person around. There are some backwoods towns in Georgia like that.
And there is something to consider. I need a place that will be a fit for me. I am a nerdy type. I love ethnic cuisine from all over the world. I like cities that are bicycle friendly. I don't like the climate in the Southeast. Summers are a nightmare for me.
If there is any southern state I would want to live in, it would be Virginia, particularly the NoVa region. And Virginia has had a Black governor, as has New York.
green - I accept your father at his word. There would be no valid reason I can think of for him to "make things up." This thread seems to prove the old adage to me: "Those with the least to say tend to talk the most." Given the rep points you've wracked up here on C-D, it seems others tend to agree with you, as well.
Regards -- jm02
Thanks. I think of my father as someone who has seen alot through his life. He is in his middle-late 50's and he has seen some events in his life.
then make your novel a friggin comment. knowing your usual self, i really didn't want to read all of it, because i'd probably just fume at the fact that nothing was learned here. my comment was 100% correct; "what i'm trying to dispel is the falsehoods that 1) the south was wrong and the north was right 2) all slave owners were evil white men and all slaves were victimized blacks 3) the north were freedom fighters who didn't profit off of slavery 4) the north didn't have slaves 5) and the falsehood that the south got "crushed" in the war. the south didn't get crushed at all. the south had 1/2 the soldiers the north had, and the north lost MORE soldiers in the war. the south kicked #$$, but we lost because the north had a larger economy at that time."
if you can find a false piece of information in the italicized response there, be my guest and tell me specifically.
if you read my post you'd see that i didn't in that post explicitly disagree with anything you wrote in italics. so basically you just made a bunch of incorrect assumptions.
in fact i basically explicitly stated in my own post the same things you said in comments 3 and 4.
a novel? i just read it. it took me about 1 min and 20 secs to read, you really don't have that kind of time? I'd assume you do have that kind of time, but if you really don't, then perhaps you shouldn't attempt responding to something you didn't read. it makes you look foolish.
and while my post didn't explicitly disagree with any of your italicized comments. i will take the time now to say something about comments 1, 2, and 5.
1.the south had no right to legally secede from the united states. show me where they have this right? also while neither side was without fault and the north wasn't exactly fighting against slavery... the south basically was fighting FOR slavery, so yea while you probably can't say the north was totally righteous, they certainly were much more righteous than the south which attempted to break up the union in order to continue to own slaves and then when informed that their secession would not be tolerated they fought for that right to own slaves.
2. Are you really trying to state that slavery was good for some slaves because their owners treated them well? really? well in that case i'd like you to come up to philly. The apartment below me just opened up, i'll pay for it, you can live there. I'll treat you real nice, give you 3 square meals a day. I'll let you go to church, and i'll even let you learn how to read and write. In return all you have to do is give up your free will and become my slave. Don't worry the work won't be too hard. all i expect is an honest days work and you'll be treated nice. sounds like a nice deal right? come be my slave. otherwise eat your words.
5. Glad you're so proud of all the a$$ the south kicked in the civil war. it's this kind of juvenile behavior that was exactly what i was talking about in my post that you didn't take the time to read. i mean honestly bragging that the south killed more northerners than the northerners killed southerners is about as juvenile as it gets. it was a war. our forefathers fought and killed each other. it was a great tragedy. but please continue to brag about how many people the south killed in their war to own slaves... that REALLY makes it better.
philly_2011, i sort of skimmed your response and saw that you said we think the civil war wasn't about slavery. pardon me if i "missed your point" but that was way too long to read. as has been said over and over again, there's no doubt slavery played a major role in the civil war. but the fact of the matter is that the north had no constitutional right in stepping in. what i'm trying to dispel is the falsehoods that 1) the south was wrong and the north was right 2) all slave owners were evil white men and all slaves were victimized blacks 3) the north were freedom fighters who didn't profit off of slavery 4) the north didn't have slaves 5) and the falsehood that the south got "crushed" in the war. the south didn't get crushed at all. the south had 1/2 the soldiers the north had, and the north lost MORE soldiers in the war. the south kicked #$$, but we lost because the north had a larger economy at that time.
Here is another falsehood for you: The Civil war was fought between the north and the south. It was actually the Union vs. the Confederacy.
"While practically all Northerners supported the Union, Southerners were split between those loyal to the entire United States (called "unionists") and those loyal primarily to the southern region and then the Confederacy.[59]"
David M. Potter, "The Historian's Use of Nationalism and Vice Versa," American Historical Review, Vol. 67, No. 4 (July 1962), pp. 924–950 in JSTOR
Location: Metro Atlanta (Sandy Springs), by way of Macon, GA
2,014 posts, read 5,101,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
I never said there wasn't racism up north. I am just saying it is a different kind in the North.
As late as 2008, there were places in Mississippi that were having segregated proms. Some places in Georgia as well.
In some parts of North Georgia, I have been the only Black person around. There are some backwoods towns in Georgia like that.
And there is something to consider. I need a place that will be a fit for me. I am a nerdy type. I love ethnic cuisine from all over the world. I like cities that are bicycle friendly. I don't like the climate in the Southeast. Summers are a nightmare for me.
If there is any southern state I would want to live in, it would be Virginia, particularly the NoVa region. And Virginia has had a Black governor, as has New York.
As you can see below, outside of the south, the bulk of blacks are basically confined to certain pockets. This is even more true for a state like Wisconsin. In opposition, blacks basically live all over each deep south state.
What your father said just puzzles me.
We have all of these people in non-southern states telling us how it's so bad and racist here, though we blacks continue to make up 30%-60% of the population even in the most rural of towns. yet the blacks in their states are confined to certain pocket areas. If an army of blacks decided to move to those LARGE patches of blue in all those non-southern states, do you think it would be all love with open arms? lol.
Let's take The City of Detroit's population and move everybody to the upper peninsula or the northern part of that glove and see how it goes in that utopia up there in northern states.
It's no more racist down here.
(As for the for the segregated proms comment, I actually dated a girl who graduated in 04-05 from a town that still has those (Mt. Vernon, GA). She told me blacks and whites still went to the prom designated for the other race because most of them were friends anyway. "Racial Tension" is not nearly as bad as made out to be here, especially with us younger people.
As you can see below, outside of the south, the bulk of blacks are basically confined to certain pockets. This is even more true for a state like Wisconsin. In opposition, blacks basically live all over each deep south state.
What your father said just puzzles me.
We have all of these people in non-southern states telling us how it's so bad and racist here, though we blacks continue to make up 30%-60% of the population even in the most rural of towns. yet the blacks in their states are confined to certain pocket areas. If an army of blacks decided to move to those LARGE patches of blue in all those non-southern states, do you think it would be all love with open arms? lol.
Let's take The City of Detroit's population and move everybody to the upper peninsula or the northern part of that glove and see how it goes in that utopia up there in northern states.
It's no more racist down here.
(As for the for the segregated proms comment, I actually dated a girl who graduated in 04-05 from a town that still has those (Mt. Vernon, GA). She told me blacks and whites still went to the prom designated for the other race because most of them were friends anyway. "Racial Tension" is not nearly as bad as made out to be here, especially with us younger people.
I think that map just shows there are a lot more "pockets" in the south. And I may be crazy but to hear that segregated proms are still around is disturbing to me. I also happen to be a native southerner.
I think that map just shows there are a lot more "pockets" in the south. And I may be crazy but to hear that segregated proms are still around is disturbing to me. I also happen to be a native southerner.
Thanks for saying this about the proms. Extolling this as somehow being a good thing is disturbing to me, as well.
I grow weary of the folks claiming the south is post-racism. This map proves nothing. This bright lights in Houston and New Orleans (cities I know well) are segregated concentrations of AAs. I'm guessing this is true in the other urban "bright spots" as well, since most small towns I've been in in the south have black citizens in one part of town and white folks in another. I know this because I've lived down there, have traveled through every southern state and have in-laws in rural SC.
Anyone who makes claims such as these . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by King_X
outside of the south, the bulk of blacks are basically confined to certain pockets
blacks continue to make up 30%-60% of the population even in the most rural of towns. yet the blacks in their [northern] states are confined to certain pocket areas.
. . . has either never been to the south or had their eyes closed when they were there.
Thanks for saying this about the proms. Extolling this as somehow being a good thing is disturbing to me, as well.
I grow weary of the folks claiming the south is post-racism. This map proves nothing. This bright lights in Houston and New Orleans (cities I know well) are segregated concentrations of AAs. I'm guessing this is true in the other urban "bright spots" as well, since most small towns I've been in in the south have black citizens in one part of town and white folks in another. I know this because I've lived down there, have traveled through every southern state and have in-laws in rural SC.
Anyone who makes claims such as these . . .
. . . has either never been to the south or had their eyes closed when they were there.
I say the South and the North are not that much better than one another when it comes to race, just different in some ways.
I say the South and the North are not that much better than one another when it comes to race, just different in some ways.
Not saying I disagree. Just saying that this line some folks have been spouting that the south is better integrated is bunk.
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yet the blacks in their states are confined to certain pocket areas. If an army of blacks decided to move to those LARGE patches of blue in all those non-southern states, do you think it would be all love with open arms? lol.
