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Old 05-01-2021, 01:34 AM
 
1,656 posts, read 432,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elchevere View Post
Miami is probably overrated if you are from the “lower cost of living” crowd and cannot afford to take advantage of its amenities. Compared to other, even more expensive top coastal cities (NYC, LA, SF) it is a relative bargain yet remains one of the more exciting cities in the country and, frankly, underrated.
In the real world where most of us live,Miami may as well be Monaco. To live in a city like Atlanta isnt settling as there are plenty of places that offer similar amenities as Atlanta.
If a city is bleeding people where only people who can afford yachts then its not a matter of looking for a "bargain as it is wanting a place where you can live to maybe one day at least come close to owning a yacht.

Miami and South Florida are bleeding as many people as its adding as its just too expensive. If a city cant attract all types of people then its not a great place yo be, No one moving to Atlanta should expect a bargain of which no one would call Miami a "bargain" unless they are well off.
The best cities should offer a balance for all income levels .Unfortunately every major city is becoming un-affordable and that includes Atlanta.

Miami being so expensive you would expect the schools system should be better,more quality museums and institutions,etc. Not to say Miami doesnt have some of that but it should be far better than below cities like Atlanta.
Miami biggest problem currently is retaining millennial. The average age is 33.1 in Atlanta . In Miami is 40. Which again is a telling factor that shows its the older you are you are likely to live in a more high cost areas.
Miami lags behind every almost major city when it comes to median incomes.You cant have so many people making so little in abundant tourism jobs that cant afford housing.

You just sound rather snobbish in your post and they just dont show the reality of why and how the average person chooses a place to call home.
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Old 05-01-2021, 01:37 AM
 
1,656 posts, read 432,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcenal352 View Post
This.
If I could live ANYWHERE in Florida, there are certainly some parts of Miami that would be at the top of my list. Being that I can only afford a more moderate lifestyle, it is not for me, as I would not be able to enjoy the finer things the city has to offer, whereas I easily can in Orlando and Tampa.
You see it in all the reports of people fleeing Miami for Tampa and Orlando as those cities are far cheaper but offer very similar amenities
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Old 05-01-2021, 02:00 AM
 
1,656 posts, read 432,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frustratedintelligence View Post
The beach/ocean is Miami's golden goose. Take that feature away and you don't have much that can't be found elsewhere. I agree that it helps to be rich here, but it also helps to be fond of Cuban/Caribbean culture and the year-long heat and humidity. If none of those things excite you then it's easy to decide that Miami is overrated.

Atlanta is better for someone that prefers more of a four season climate and a more classically American culture and people.
What you just said really illustrates why people say its overrated as its falls short of what many cities offer. If you cant check off so many important boxes then yes,its overrated. Its not about whether it excites a person to have that accessible culture as people who are from those cultures are leaving too as its not affordable for them either. The per capita income in Miami is more than half of what it is in Atlanta so who exactly is Miami serving well? Not the majority and thats not everyone just looking for a bargain city but just a livable and affordable city.
The majority of those making less are Caribbean but to a lesser degree Cuban and they are leaving Miami in large numbers. If I can find documentation Ill post it but I have met many people that fit thise background coming to Atlanta for a better quality of life.
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Old 05-01-2021, 02:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pemgin View Post
Even with the beautiful beaches and ocean, you have to be willing to tolerate the constant risk of hurricanes (and at some point in the future, sea level rise).

Miami is like Las Vegas. Fun to visit, but not a great option for livability.
This. I dont see how people do it
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Old 05-01-2021, 02:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elchevere View Post
Miami is far more evolved and diversified as a city than Vegas, including more industries (as challenged as Miami is as a corporate/career path mecca outside of finance, medical, law, real estate development, import/export/trade, etc...even some tech has been moving here) and more of a place to live—not just visit—unless, again, cheaper (for a reason) cost of living is involved.

While there is always the possibility of a hurricane (though not guaranteed nor on an annual basis), Atlanta does have its tornado threats (also, not guaranteed).
Tornado dont happen as frequently(at least arent as threatening or damaging).Miami doesnt have a military base now because of a hurricane. Homestead.
Just an example of the cost associated with living in an area that not only has hurricanes but ALSO tornadoes

What you are describing as diversified is almost literally ever American major city.
Companies relocate as well as are grown in Atlanta at a much higher rate than Miami because of the access to talented people as well as it has the institutions to produce them on a level Miami just doesnt have.
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Old 05-01-2021, 02:33 AM
 
1,656 posts, read 432,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlionjr View Post
Has nothing to do with the cost of living. I'm speaking from a visitor perspective and I could pretty much afford most of the amenities Miami has to offer. For the record some of my favorite cities to visit and would consider living in are cities like NYC,LA,SF, D.C. They're more expensive and I enjoyed them a lot more than my experience in Miami.

Outside of Miami Beach and Wynwood, Miami wasn't that impressive to me. Now I get it if your Latino or wealthy Miami is a paradise. Maybe I would have enjoyed Miami better in my 20's as a single man because my trip would have been more focused on that then what else the city had to offer. But the rude drivers, sh*tty pretentious attitudes from a good amount of residents, covert and overt racism, mediocre food,etc.

Yeah it's some things I liked about Miami, but for my to experience all this in 3 days didn't leave me with the best impressions at all.
Everything in embolden. I was trying hard not to bring this up but since you did it was so needed to be said. If you are a black person, Miami is one of the most unwelcoming major cities in US.

I have a close friend who is French and had an internship that took him from Atlanta to Miami for about 3 months, He told me himself how he encountered a white landlord who said to him :North Miami would be nicer if the blacks were gone". I believe he told me she was older somewhere from Europe

Now this is just one example and doesnt give my own personal interactions in Miami but just shows the problems many black people face. It shows in how many more blacks are leaving than coming in Miami.
Before anyone says anything to me about this I am African American and I know the many sneaky ways racist hide their racism as the worst racism isnt always so obvious or blatant.
Again black in this reference includes the often overlooked Afro-Latinos.

I would go so far as to say Miami is a racist city but I will say Miami has a racism problem . Enough of one where its not anywhere near my list of cities I would live if i had unlimited means. Miami is just not on most black people radar more than just a place to visit and have fun.
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Old 05-01-2021, 02:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Beach_Lasagna View Post
Miami crushes Atlanta for visiting, with world class beaches and nightlife. Miami is the only warm city in the US having a tropical climate.

Atlanta crushes Miami for living. Better jobs, lower crime, better walkability and lower cost of living.
I wouldnt say it crushes Atlanta unless you are of a certain youthful demographic. Entertainment in Atlanta is far reaching and more varied. Atlanta is more on the NYC/DC experience in that it has the attractions like cultural institutions ,historic landmarks,etc in which Atlanta crushes Miami if thats what is preferred over just having a beach and nightlife
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Old 05-01-2021, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
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Miami is not overrated nor does it pale in comparison to all but 4-6 other cities in terms of big boy city amenities--restaurants, nightlife, shopping, arts/cultural events, etc. It is a magnet for wealth from around the world which is why you see a Thomas Keller, Jean-Georges, etc etc outpost here (only in a few other select metros in the country, not dozens nor Atlanta) along with 2 dozen+ highly rated NYC outposts (some Michelin, some reasonably priced such as top rated Lucali pizzeria); high end brands with standalone boutiques available in only a handful of other US cities--not dozens (I can name at least 6-8 such brands off the top of my head in Miami that are not found in Atlanta); unique cultural events not found elsewhere or in very few other cities (Art Basel, Formula 1 coming next year, International Boat Show, SOBEWFF wine and food festival largest of its kind in the country, Cigar Aficionado/Wine Spectator events, and plenty of others)...yeah, having a desirable year round warm weather ocean geographical location that people are willing to pay a premium for helps—no different than CA. I guess I finally found an example where trickle down does actually work as wealthier people who grew up or move here attract and elevate the various amenities I mentioned above throughout the city. I might not take advantage of all of what I described above on a weekly or regular basis but it is available when I want it (and I do).

Many on CD mistakenly and narrow-mindedly think the only measure of wealth of a city is based on median or per capita income (BTW, some/other cities with the highest per capita incomes have the highest homeless rates)....first off, that is based off of "reported" income (not all income is reported and that is certainly applicable to Miami which has fewer people employed in the corporate world--where all income is reported--and a far greater dependence on small business ownership and self employed--in which not all earnings are "reported". It also has a good share of foreign wealth that is brought over and not counted in US median or per capita stats....others live here part time but buy expensive condos, furnish them, buy cars, support retail and restaurants causing a multiplier effect, and pay property taxes but are not included in Miami’s income stats. You asked how is Miami serving its people well based on income disparity. Let me turn this around and throw back at you--for the greater corporate presence, affordability, better universities and higher reported per capita income, how is Atlanta serving its people well when it's the one city in the entire country with greater income disparity than Miami and lack of economic mobility???

https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/...ack-mecca.html

Miami doesn't have a world class university nor is it a corporate mecca but there certainly are plenty of opportunities for those to be successful including professionals here (medicine, (growing) financial industry, law, import/export, real estate development) plus entrepreneurs. It also has its share of economically disadvantaged but it’s not Tijuana plus 12 wealthy families (and the rest bartenders) supporting all (and the caliber of) the retail, events, and restaurants here year-round that select—not dozens of—cities offer ....And one doesn’t need to live in a trophy home with yacht to enjoy all these amenities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverOne View Post
What you just said really illustrates why people say its overrated as its falls short of what many cities offer. If you cant check off so many important boxes then yes,its overrated. Its not about whether it excites a person to have that accessible culture as people who are from those cultures are leaving too as its not affordable for them either. The per capita income in Miami is more than half of what it is in Atlanta so who exactly is Miami serving well? Not the majority and thats not everyone just looking for a bargain city but just a livable and affordable city.
The majority of those making less are Caribbean but to a lesser degree Cuban and they are leaving Miami in large numbers. If I can find documentation Ill post it but I have met many people that fit thise background coming to Atlanta for a better quality of life.

Last edited by elchevere; 05-01-2021 at 07:16 AM..
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Old 05-01-2021, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Montreal/Miami/Toronto
1,520 posts, read 995,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverOne View Post
In the real world where most of us live,Miami may as well be Monaco. To live in a city like Atlanta isnt settling as there are plenty of places that offer similar amenities as Atlanta.
If a city is bleeding people where only people who can afford yachts then its not a matter of looking for a "bargain as it is wanting a place where you can live to maybe one day at least come close to owning a yacht.

Miami and South Florida are bleeding as many people as its adding as its just too expensive. If a city cant attract all types of people then its not a great place yo be, No one moving to Atlanta should expect a bargain of which no one would call Miami a "bargain" unless they are well off.
The best cities should offer a balance for all income levels .Unfortunately every major city is becoming un-affordable and that includes Atlanta.

Miami being so expensive you would expect the schools system should be better,more quality museums and institutions,etc. Not to say Miami doesnt have some of that but it should be far better than below cities like Atlanta.
Miami biggest problem currently is retaining millennial. The average age is 33.1 in Atlanta . In Miami is 40. Which again is a telling factor that shows its the older you are you are likely to live in a more high cost areas.
Miami lags behind every almost major city when it comes to median incomes.You cant have so many people making so little in abundant tourism jobs that cant afford housing.

You just sound rather snobbish in your post and they just dont show the reality of why and how the average person chooses a place to call home.

Definitely agree with you when it comes to offerings to those not ultra rich. Miami is so expensive that one of my good friends who lives in North Miami and has a $20/h wage job can't even afford a studio! I've convinced her to move up North whenever covid ends. Just imagine living in "desired" areas where rents are easily $2,500+ and wages in Miami are lagging behind national standards. The inequality in Miami clear as day honestly and it's insane that I know people who make $120,000 a year and they're struggling because Miami is that expenses. The marketing there is cleaver, they say "oh no state tax" but forget that Miami has high COL with rents/groceries, insurance, energy bills, property/school taxes, transport costs are insane and all the fees too. Even someone like myself making six figures, it was hard to live a fulfilled life in Miami. Compared to where I am now, even though taxes are much higher, I'm left with more savings and can therefore live more freely.

I don't think I've ever seen a city try so hard to attract only the elites like Miami. The whole Miami Tech movement is really a lobbying effort for the city's mayor, as his business is invested heavily in bitcoin and real estate (and in typical Miami fashion, they don't step down from these positions). Some businesses have indeed opened offices there, but for the most part it is speculation. But the whole "only the wealthy make the city better" mantra Miami has had since the early 2000s has made the city so tacky, fake and trying so hard to be the next NYC, SF, Dubai and all that, it's sad to see. It is easily one the most unequal city I've ever lived in and not everyone gets to benefit from it, unless you're ultra wealthy.

It also explains why the net gain population wise in MDC has been between 1500-2000 people a year in 2018/2019 and will probably be in the negatives for 2020. The city is so expensive and is exclusive to those who have all the money. It is a consumption city that portrays itself as a "utopia" for the elite, but it's chaos for the common people. High poverty rates, the homeless population figures are skewed (they only account for visible homeless people), low wages, lack of high quality jobs, education is subpar, I can go on.

At the end of the day, noone gives a rats ass about how many celebrities live in their cities and where they go, people care about living a good life without worrying about rents, putting food on the table, job security, etc. When you have a mayor kissing ass to Keith Rabois and only caring about stealing jobs from other cities (while everything is closed from a pandemic) that just shows that priorities are not straight there. And doing this will only make Miami more expensive, more elitist and with the lack of talent there, less locals will benefit.
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Old 05-01-2021, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
4,893 posts, read 3,259,979 times
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I tend to agree with your part about Suarez and his hyped push for tech. I worked in tech for 33 years, and appreciate Suarez’s salesmanship efforts but am skeptical and see more sizzle than steak. There have been tech players who have moved here that you mentioned, more VC funding commitments in the area (SoftBank, Founders Fund, Thoma Bravo) and some companies opening up offices here with some high paying jobs—but at the end of the day Miami won’t even be another Austin, let alone a Seattle or Silicon Valley; more like a slightly larger thumbprint than it has had (off a small base) primarily to have access to Latin America. If and when Microsoft and Apple follow through on commercial space they are supposedly currently negotiating then I might sing a different tune. Not a done deal until I see signed on the dotted line. For now, I see Suarez (real estate attorney) doing his best to help sell more real estate in the Miami area and/or seeking higher office.

https://commercialobserver.com/2021/...-830-brickell/

Where it should focus its efforts are on attracting more financial firms, given that such a base already exists here and it has attracted an increasing number of domestic hedge funds to compliment its existent international banking base....like tech, it will get crumbs—not replace—or become “the next Wall Street”, etc...bit of hype here as well though more success in the finance industry.

Disagree about needing to be ultra wealthy to live here and enjoy the area; as I stated earlier plenty of professionals (doctors, attorneys, finance, real estate developers, some sales, small business owners) who have a good life here and are not living in Cocoplum or on Palm or Star Island nor do they need to get on a plane to eat at top NYC or DC outposts, shop at the same stores or attend arts/top events—some have opened up down here.....but there are other cities that are a better fit (and more American) that cost less to live in and offer more bang for the buck for whom Miami does not make financial sense.

Last edited by elchevere; 05-01-2021 at 01:00 PM..
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