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Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,994,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtownboogie
Sorry no, ATL can't compare its system to DC or SF it best compares to the cities I put it up against, this is not a knock against ATL but as of now this:
can't be compared to these two:
Underground map of San Francisco
It is best compared to the cities I put up against.
Thank you, ATL's MARTA has the pontential to be better than all the other cities I listed but until the system gets expanded it can't be compared to DC or SF.
I'll give you the DC metro is a league above every city in the States except NYC in terms of coverage and usage, but I really don't understand your premise for how BART whallops MARTA?
If it is the maps, then that is an example of how BART and MARTA equalize. As you can see on the MARTA map (which is not to scale), the majority of the system's stations are in Atlanta proper. With BART, the majority of the stations are not in San Francisco proper. Thusly, MARTA serves it's central city better than BART and BART serves it's suburbs better than MARTA.
However, as you should know (do you?), it really doesn't matter what the coverage is if no one rides it. Because of that, the most important factor of judging how good of a transit system a city has is to look at how many people ride it on a daily basis.
BART has a daily ridership of 300,000 passengers
MARTA has a daily rail ridership of 260,000 passengers
In other words, they are essentially equal and neither holds an advantage over the other.
With that said, and as others have stated, MARTA is leagues above the rail transit available in Dallas and Denver and is better than LA's rail for now (although they technically have a higher ridership than MARTA when Light Rail and Subway is combined, it is only be a few thousand passengers. MARTA is better at that metric given Los Angeles has a central city population 8 times higher than Atlanta and a metro population three times higher).
My biggest criticism of Marta has been it's failure to carry out more expansion of it's rapid rail and add commuter lines. I still however, feel Marta is superior to the other systems using the criteria the OP set forth. The only thing DART has over it is miles of track but like stated before that is light rail and Marta's more rapid heavy rail miles do a really good job of hitting major inner city destinations. Future of the systems is up for debate but if Mart actually carries out all it's plans for the future (this is where I'm worried) and on time then it's future system should be better than the others as well.
Marta like I said hits most of Atlanta's popular in town destinations with rapid rail with the exception of Emory, Va Highland, and Lp5 but it has stations close enough to these to be only a short bus ride away.
Finally, Heavy Rail is so much faster and moves more people as stated before and this is something light rail really can't emulate going through town streets especially Downtown. You can see this pretty apparent for yourself just by checking out DART and MARTA trains in action through their respective Downtown areas.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,994,819 times
Reputation: 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger
The only thing DART has over it is miles of track but like stated before that is light rail and Marta's more rapid heavy rail miles do a really good job of hitting major inner city destinations.
Exactly, and it proves just how much better MARTA is to DART. Even though DART covers a larger area than MARTA, the numbers are extremely lopsided:
DART daily rail ridership - 65,000 trips
MARTA daily rail ridership - 260,000 trips
I also find it odd that people are willing to make a case as to how DART is better than MARTA based on just the number of miles of track alone but wouldn't do the same for Philadelphia's or Boston's subways which it is even more larger than in comparison to MARTA's subway.
Exactly, and it proves just how much better MARTA is to DART. Even though DART covers a larger area than MARTA, the numbers are extremely lopsided:
DART daily rail ridership - 65,000 trips
MARTA daily rail ridership - 260,000 trips
Exactly, its not about the number of miles of track your system has, its about the amount of stops and passengers your system serves daily and DART fails in that category.
The verdict of DART is still out. The orange line to DFW airport want be completed until 2014. That should give DART a huge boost in ridership. Fort Worth at the present moment is trying to secure 500 million to start its line from southwest Fort Worth, downtown, to DFW airport. I am postive the people from southwest Fort Worth would love to jump on a train to DFW airport. If this happens DFW as a region should at least average 200,000 riders per day if not more. DFW is still heavily built around a car culture, but overtime this will diminish.
Dallas alone doesn't have the density to match systems like Boston, Los Angeles, Atlanta, or even Seattle and Houston. That's the problem, the population concentration for the Metroplex is on two different sides and I know TRE operates from downtown Fort Worth to downtown Dallas however the ridership for TRE is weak but Dallas's plans while ambitious as meaningless if it cant work with Fort Worth for a transit system for the whole Metroplex.
Tarrant and Dallas Counties are the largest counties in the Metroplex yet only one is served by DART. Why is that? I've ridden DART before, its really not impressive at all with nearly empty trains and the density really reflects by the communities it goes through, pure suburban neighborhoods. DART wants a LRT system but operates as a CRT system, it didn't force the suburbs to CRT by enhancing LRT in the core and thats where DART messed up.
I mean how else can you explain how the largest LRT system in America with 72.5 miles of track brings in a measly 65,000 people per day? Thats laughable.
Dallas alone doesn't have the density to match systems like Boston, Los Angeles, Atlanta, or even Seattle and Houston. That's the problem, the population concentration for the Metroplex is on two different sides and I know TRE operates from downtown Fort Worth to downtown Dallas however the ridership for TRE is weak but Dallas's plans while ambitious as meaningless if it cant work with Fort Worth for a transit system for the whole Metroplex.
Tarrant and Dallas Counties are the largest counties in the Metroplex yet only one is served by DART. Why is that? I've ridden DART before, its really not impressive at all with nearly empty trains and the density really reflects by the communities it goes through, pure suburban neighborhoods. DART wants a LRT system but operates as a CRT system, it didn't force the suburbs to CRT by enhancing LRT int he core and thats where DART messed up.
I mean how else can you explain how the largest LRT system in America with 72.5 miles of track brings in a measly 65,000 people per day? Thats laughable.
DART big problem is it needs to end its Honor system. Many of their passengers do not pay for its fares, which cost the system millions of dollars. The orange line will go through Los Colinas before it hits the big airport. Los Colinas is HUGE for DART. People will gladly hop on the train in Fort Worth because simply put T bus transportation is horrible. Also the majority of Fort Worth jobs are located downtown all the way to the alliance corridor. The Fort Worth line will run smack down in the middle of highly populated residential areas on the Westside. If some kind of way Fort Worth can talk Arlington into creating a line from Arlington to downtown Fort Worth than a huge chunk of Tarrant County will have access to the system. From what I have read from Dallas morning News is a lot of DART stops have no development around it. They are banking on future development. I don't think that is very smart. You are supposed to build in areas that are already built up.
DART big problem is it needs to end this Honor system. Many of their passengers do not pay for its fares, which cost the system millions of dollars. The orange line will go through Los Colinas before it hits the big airport. Los Colinas is HUGE for DART. People will gladly hop on the train in Fort Worth because simply put T bus transportation is horrible. Also the majority of Fort Worth jobs are located downtown all the way to the alliance corridor. The Fort Worth line will run smack down in the middle of highly populated residential areas on the Westside. If some kind of way Fort Worth can talk Arlington into creating a line from Arlington to downtown Fort Worth than a huge chunk of Tarrant County will have access to the system. From what I have read from Dallas morning News is a lot of DART stops have no development around it. They are banking on future development. I don't think that is very smart. You are supposed to build in areas that are already built up.
I sort of agree.
I think what DART wanted is instant success but its plan is long term. Did you know CTA is credited as the number one reason for Chicago's density? It was built in bustling areas but also undeveloped areas but the density came with time after it was built. To build a system in already dense and established areas is to serve that area with a new form of transit, to build it out in an undeveloped area is to let that area organically grow around rail transit. Which is more of what I think DART is doing. Houston's METRO seems to hate suburbs and only wants to keep it inside the loop and if it extends out the plans are only to go out to very limited areas in suburban tracts and the airport. It's a different way of doing it but in the end I think the success of both systems will even out, they have different takes on it.
The one problem I see with the Metroplex is always that mentality that Fort Worth and Dallas have to do things separate rather than in a combined venture. If DART did its phase expansion o Fort Worth rather than Plano, it would have a rider market untouchable from hat of Plano. The Metroplex really needs a united plan, from what it seems like to me.
Here are some pictures of the Los Colinas line...The green line when it all said and done will have the highest ridership of any line in Dallas. My only question is why not ram these lines into the heart of these districts, instead of the outskirts.
My God the green line is way away from the people... this is why ridership so low....Look at this video...The only develop area the green line currently goes through is the downtown area. The rest of the areas are vastly undeveloped. WTF where they thinking the system is suppose to be user friendly. Especially the southern end is a let down...they should have ran the line through residential areas instead of following the old train tracks. Those areas are already built up. There is no excuse for this...
Last edited by Exult.Q36; 05-03-2011 at 05:50 PM..
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