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I have only visited Boston twice, but imagine it must be an incredible place to live. If given the choice (ie. if I had the budget), I would probably choose Boston. Seattle is beautiful & a great place to raise a family, but it feels so isolated (ex. the closest places for weekend trips are very similar to Seattle). Also, the NE offers much more in terms of culture, educational institutions, and early American history.
I love that this thread has made it to page 9 without being contentious. I also love that the members of city-data that live in either Boston or Seattle are generally able to appreciate the other city's strong suits.
I grew up on the Alabama Gulf Coast and lived in the Seattle Metro Area (Ft. Lewis then Factoria) for a couple years and have visited Boston quite a few times, totaling about a month and half, with a couple weeks staying at a friends dorm room at BU, another couple weeks at my brothers place in Chelsea, and the rest just scattered around.
Never lived in Boston, so won't say which is 'better' but just a couple of observations/general responses to info posted earlier.
When it comes to rail transit, Boston has Seattle beat. Unfortunately Seattle has only recently gotten (back) into the rail game. Right now we only have one streetcar line the **** (South Lake Union Trolley) and the first branch of our new Light Rail System Link. Link is pretty unique in that as well as being the most expensive Light Rail System in the world, it is also the 'heaviest' As in completely grade separated in the core AND large station platforms, larger than some lines of the Paris Metro in fact. The First Hill Streetcar will join the **** in the next couple of years, and Link currently has build out plans (and funds) up until 2023. This is being done regionally (through Sound Transit) so not all of the build out will be within the city limits but Mayor Mike McGinn has talked about putting a rail expansion measure on the ballot, so more might be in the works. One thing that that IMO Seattle has beat on Boston is the bus system. Seattle (until we built the above stated lines) had the largest bus only transit system in the US. Even without rail it had the 8th largest transit usage while being only the 13th largest metro area. Pretty impressive considering the 7 ahead all have extensive rail systems. The Trolley Bus system is pretty extensive, reliable, and frequent. Maybe just where my brother lived (Chelsea) and worked (Jamaica Plains) were bad samples but I found the bus system in Boston rather lacking. Awesome Public Transit if you are along the T, not so much elsewhere.
Speaking of getting around, give me Seattle's Grid(s) over Boston's.... pile of spaghetti.
As I mentioned above I've spent some time in Chelsea and Jamaica Plains.... Seattle has NO areas I've seen like that. Even the Rainier Valley which is considered a 'low income/high crime/under educated/diverse/multicultural/whatever euphemism-you-want-to-use-for-'non white' doesn't feel anything like the area outside my brother's place in Chelsea (which to be fair was across the street from a giant public housing project, which Seattle doesn't really have).
While both cities are predominately white, Boston's minorities are much more concentrated.
Boston:
Seattle:
Hmmm.... most people have already commented on the superiority of the weather and nature out in Seattle () but I'd like to point out one other thing about the Seattle Metro... It's compact. At least East West. Between the Puget Sound, Lake Washington, Lake Sammamish, the Cascades, not a whole lot of room to sprawl to the East. Which means from where I was in Factoria I was 15 minutes from getting out of car under the Viaduct and heading to Pioneer Square to party or 25 minutes the other direction from getting out of my car at the trailhead to my favorite hike in the Cascades (Rattlesnake Ridge).
Oh! Another thing about geography. Washington has a very large range of scenery. Every summer our group drives over the pass to Ellensburg and spends a long weekend camping, boozing, creek floating, boozing, hanging out, and boozing. Totally different world on the other side. You go from Sound, Forests and Mountains to Rolling Hills, Plains and Deserts.
As to the culture, I LOVED it out there. I don't know if I just lucked out, or the fact that I'm Southern and very outgoing but I never had a problem integrating. I've got more friends out there than I do back where I grew up. Can say enough how much I love the people (especially my wife, which I poached from Seattle ).
Hmmm.... Oh yeah, another area not mentioned. Guns. Washington State Law doesn't allow cities and counties to have stricter laws than the State. And it is a Shall Issue state, so unless you have a record, you get a Concealed Pistol Permit good for five years.
And no DUI or other kind of Road Blocks, ruled Unconstitutional by SCOWAS. As I liberal libertarian, I find the politics in the area more to my liking than what I know of Boston.
I'd also venture to say that Seattle has a bit more diversified economy, if really only b/c of Boeing and the manufacturing jobs still left along the Duwamish and in Interbay.
[edit] Another thought, Seattle gets almost all of it's electricity from renewables and nuclear, IIRC Seattle City Light gets less than 2.5% of it's power from fossil fuels. Combined with it's low power requirements (mild weather means little need for heating and air conditioning) Seattle is more insulated from rising energy costs.
Last edited by Ancalagon; 07-06-2011 at 03:57 PM..
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
10,742 posts, read 23,798,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
I love that this thread has made it to page 9 without being contentious. I also love that the members of city-data that live in either Boston or Seattle are generally able to appreciate the other city's strong suits.
Hmm... Perhaps that says a lot about both Boston and Seattle I do appreciate the civil comparisons here as well. A thread like this is a rare find.
Seattle and Boston are indeed both outstanding and remarkable cities with a lot of character and contributions.
great pictures of both cities. while i really like both of them, i've got to give the nod to boston. it's one of my top 3 or 4 in the country. the history, the people and the location can't be beat. seattle is beautiful, but the weather really wears on me. i also don't care for its relative isolation, compared to boston. however, it *is* only a 3hr drive from vancouver, my absolute fav canadian city, and one of my worldwide favs....hmmmm...............
i also don't care for its relative isolation, compared to boston. however, it *is* only a 3hr drive from vancouver, my absolute fav canadian city, and one of my worldwide favs....hmmmm...............
One thing to keep an eye on is the Cascades Service. WashDOT has had a plan for over a decade and a half now to incrementally bring the service up to High Speed Rail (American Standard). Even better than having a plan, they've been putting up the money, as has Sound Transit (funds Sounder Commuter Rail) in the Seattle metro for the tracks there. This initiative combined with Senator Murray being head of the Senate Transportation Committee means that the Cascades got a LARGE chunk of ARRA (Stimulus) money and continued HSR funding. We're looking at 2.5 hours to Portland and 2.75 to Vancouver before the end of the decade.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_Cascades
Since we're putting up pictures, the newly restored King Street Station:
Before:
(Who doesn't love drop ceilings and painted marble?
After:
Some Exterior (although this is a bit old, in slides 20 and 21 you can see the two story edition that housed the escalator. It has now been removed):
http://www.slideshare.net/allieger/king-street-station-restoration-phase1-before-and-after
Public transportation in Seattle is a bit of a fiasco. I hope that one day we have an effective light rail system. Until then, I'm not holding my breath. Plans have been lost in bureaucracy for many years now, and much $ wasted.
Boston feels like the bigger city cause it is about 1 million larger on MSA's but seattle has better outdoor activites but both are extremely good cities for both urban and outdoor woodsy activities so it just depends on your prefrence. I would choose boston
BTW boston has more sports teams so thats a plus for me
Good first post, Anc, welcome to City-Data, always good to see a friend join up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancalagon
I grew up on the Alabama Gulf Coast and lived in the Seattle Metro Area (Ft. Lewis then Factoria) for a couple years and have visited Boston quite a few times, totaling about a month and half, with a couple weeks staying at a friends dorm room at BU, another couple weeks at my brothers place in Chelsea, and the rest just scattered around.
Just a side note, here, but Chelsea is not technically part of Boston, but a separate municipality. Geographically, it certainly appears to seamlessly fit within the city borders, but it is an example of an area that was not annexed during the great land grab.
Quote:
Never lived in Boston, so won't say which is 'better' but just a couple of observations/general responses to info posted earlier.
When it comes to rail transit, Boston has Seattle beat. Unfortunately Seattle has only recently gotten (back) into the rail game. Right now we only have one streetcar line the **** (South Lake Union Trolley) and the first branch of our new Light Rail System Link. Link is pretty unique in that as well as being the most expensive Light Rail System in the world, it is also the 'heaviest' As in completely grade separated in the core AND large station platforms, larger than some lines of the Paris Metro in fact. The First Hill Streetcar will join the **** in the next couple of years, and Link currently has build out plans (and funds) up until 2023. This is being done regionally (through Sound Transit) so not all of the build out will be within the city limits but Mayor Mike McGinn has talked about putting a rail expansion measure on the ballot, so more might be in the works. One thing that that IMO Seattle has beat on Boston is the bus system. Seattle (until we built the above stated lines) had the largest bus only transit system in the US. Even without rail it had the 8th largest transit usage while being only the 13th largest metro area. Pretty impressive considering the 7 ahead all have extensive rail systems. The Trolley Bus system is pretty extensive, reliable, and frequent. Maybe just where my brother lived (Chelsea) and worked (Jamaica Plains) were bad samples but I found the bus system in Boston rather lacking. Awesome Public Transit if you are along the T, not so much elsewhere.
I have heard very good things about the buses in Seattle. It is a comprehensive system, and not directly comparable with the bus portion of the 'T. Boston bus routes are designed to feed people on to rail. As such, they aren't all that useful as a point to point conveyance. But they do a good job on the given assignment. Seattle's will likely start to move in this direction as more rail is built.
Quote:
Speaking of getting around, give me Seattle's Grid(s) over Boston's.... pile of spaghetti.
As I mentioned above I've spent some time in Chelsea and Jamaica Plains.... Seattle has NO areas I've seen like that. Even the Rainier Valley which is considered a 'low income/high crime/under educated/diverse/multicultural/whatever euphemism-you-want-to-use-for-'non white' doesn't feel anything like the area outside my brother's place in Chelsea (which to be fair was across the street from a giant public housing project, which Seattle doesn't really have).
As noted above, Chelsea is not within the city boundaries. It is an example of an area that really should have been annexed, and has suffered greatly for not electing to join Boston in the 19th century. Essentially, Chelsea lacks the economic scale necessary to support any kind of significant city services, yet due to location, is a very urban, very dense neighborhood, attracting low income immigrants (and a few odd Americorps kids) willing to live 5 to a bedroom. Chelsea does not have the wherewithal to support this population and over the past 20 years, the school system was taken over by a university, and the town itself spent some time in state receivership. It is not a very accurate gauge of Boston as a whole. As for JP, you probably were in the Hyde Square or Jackson Square sections, or the corridor running between the two on Centre Street. This is also an area that attracts significant first entry immigration, and as such, is fairly impoverished. But if you scratch the surface, you'll actually find some exciting things going on there. Lots of good music and food, to go along with the poverty and projects. But yes, probably not the best initial introduction to Boston.
Quote:
While both cities are predominately white, Boston's minorities are much more concentrated.
Boston:
Seattle:
Hmmm.... most people have already commented on the superiority of the weather and nature out in Seattle () but I'd like to point out one other thing about the Seattle Metro... It's compact. At least East West. Between the Puget Sound, Lake Washington, Lake Sammamish, the Cascades, not a whole lot of room to sprawl to the East. Which means from where I was in Factoria I was 15 minutes from getting out of car under the Viaduct and heading to Pioneer Square to party or 25 minutes the other direction from getting out of my car at the trailhead to my favorite hike in the Cascades (Rattlesnake Ridge).
We don't have anything that resembles the cascades, but I can ski within 15 minutes of my house, and be downtown within 20 minutes.
Quote:
Oh! Another thing about geography. Washington has a very large range of scenery. Every summer our group drives over the pass to Ellensburg and spends a long weekend camping, boozing, creek floating, boozing, hanging out, and boozing. Totally different world on the other side. You go from Sound, Forests and Mountains to Rolling Hills, Plains and Deserts.
As to the culture, I LOVED it out there. I don't know if I just lucked out, or the fact that I'm Southern and very outgoing but I never had a problem integrating. I've got more friends out there than I do back where I grew up. Can say enough how much I love the people (especially my wife, which I poached from Seattle ).
Hmmm.... Oh yeah, another area not mentioned. Guns. Washington State Law doesn't allow cities and counties to have stricter laws than the State. And it is a Shall Issue state, so unless you have a record, you get a Concealed Pistol Permit good for five years.
And no DUI or other kind of Road Blocks, ruled Unconstitutional by SCOWAS. As I liberal libertarian, I find the politics in the area more to my liking than what I know of Boston.
I'd also venture to say that Seattle has a bit more diversified economy, if really only b/c of Boeing and the manufacturing jobs still left along the Duwamish and in Interbay.
[edit] Another thought, Seattle gets almost all of it's electricity from renewables and nuclear, IIRC Seattle City Light gets less than 2.5% of it's power from fossil fuels. Combined with it's low power requirements (mild weather means little need for heating and air conditioning) Seattle is more insulated from rising energy costs.
Come for another visit, and we can get down and dirty with a discussion of LEED certification
Good first post, Anc, welcome to City-Data, always good to see a friend join up.
Thanks for the invite.
Quote:
Just a side note, here, but Chelsea is not technically part of Boston, but a separate municipality. Geographically, it certainly appears to seamlessly fit within the city borders, but it is an example of an area that was not annexed during the great land grab.
Interesting, I didn't know that. Sounds somewhat similar to Seattle's White Center.
Burien annexed half of White Center last year (it was all unincorporated King County), but Seattle is dithering on annexing it's half. There was a lot of BS about how White Center would take more from the budget than it would pay in, with only a few people pointing out 'Uh, guys.... name a residential neighborhood that is revenue positive!?!?' Personally I feel that White Center's 'diverse' population (by PNW standards it's 55% white) is partially to blame (although the recession did not help). An ongoing play on words is 'White Center at your own risk' (say it aloud).
Shame really, Seattle needs as much population as you can get. One thing Boston has is that it has a larger % of the State's population, in a much smaller state. Not to mention it's the Capitol. The Seattle Metro is just over 50% of the state pop, Boston is just over 69%. Also Washington is much larger AND has some pretty substantial geographic barriers (Puget Sound, Cascades). I personally thinks this makes it much easier to 'hate on Seattle' as being so far away people have less exposure to the city. Combined with the legislature being in Olympia it's not like even their representatives have a connection with the city either.
This gives you a situation where while King County only gets back .60 on the dollar it sends to Olympia everyone outside the Metro area complains about how the 'Liberals in Seattle' are 'stealing' all their money. Very frustrating.
Quote:
I have heard very good things about the buses in Seattle. It is a comprehensive system, and not directly comparable with the bus portion of the 'T. Boston bus routes are designed to feed people on to rail. As such, they aren't all that useful as a point to point conveyance. But they do a good job on the given assignment. Seattle's will likely start to move in this direction as more rail is built.
One would hope. However Link is being built by Sound Transit, a regional transit authority, while the Bus system is a county operation. Bus/Rail integration so far has been very lacking. This means we have a lot of duplicated routes. Problem is, everyone here is used to 'one seat rides' which they don't want to give up. Combined with the fact that Metro is run directly by the County Council changing bus routes has become VERY political.
And frustrating. There is some hope in the recession though. Metro has had to cut costs and reorganize, forcing some of these changes.
Quote:
As noted above, Chelsea is not within the city boundaries. It is an example of an area that really should have been annexed, and has suffered greatly for not electing to join Boston in the 19th century. Essentially, Chelsea lacks the economic scale necessary to support any kind of significant city services, yet due to location, is a very urban, very dense neighborhood, attracting low income immigrants (and a few odd Americorps kids) willing to live 5 to a bedroom. Chelsea does not have the wherewithal to support this population and over the past 20 years, the school system was taken over by a university, and the town itself spent some time in state receivership. It is not a very accurate gauge of Boston as a whole. As for JP, you probably were in the Hyde Square or Jackson Square sections, or the corridor running between the two on Centre Street. This is also an area that attracts significant first entry immigration, and as such, is fairly impoverished. But if you scratch the surface, you'll actually find some exciting things going on there. Lots of good music and food, to go along with the poverty and projects. But yes, probably not the best initial introduction to Boston.
Your references to first entry immigration reminds of Triumph of the City, did you ever get around to reading that? He makes a big point about how urban poverty is overrated, especially among those that move to the city as opposed to were born there. The fact that migrant poor believe the city to be a place where they can better themselves is something to be celebrated.
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We don't have anything that resembles the cascades, but I can ski within 15 minutes of my house, and be downtown within 20 minutes.
BAH! You don't have snow out East. You have ice and slush!
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Come for another visit, and we can get down and dirty with a discussion of LEED certification
I hope to. One aspect that I didn't think about when joining was that I would never be able to vacation anywhere. Being stationed away from home means any leave time was to visit family, now that I'm married and have moved to NC it means splitting all my time between Alabama and Seattle. Only vacation I have taken in 5 years was a week in Jackson Hole for my honeymoon. I look forward to getting out (269 days) and being able to actually travel again.
Last edited by Ancalagon; 07-22-2011 at 05:42 AM..
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). 
I do appreciate the civil comparisons here as well. A thread like this is a rare find. 
Very frustrating. 
