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I had to Google Oak Tree neighborhood. I spend no time over there, who knew it was so dense?
The blocks in between Foothill and International between 24th and 28th are annoyingly dense(LOL).
I mean that because the streets are so narrow that its hard to drive through them and its like everybody there owns a big SUV or huge van so you have to be careful not to hit a parked car or a person walking by.
Having spent a lot of time in both cities, I think it's pure East Coast bias that someone would try and argue Philly is somehow more urban than SF.
Outside of downtown, its not even close. SF wins by a pretty good margin. Philly has huge surface lots, random empty fields, significant abandoned stretches, a number of wide roads with somewhat sparse development. San Francisco is wall-to-wall urbanity from Castro to North Beach.
Honestly, just go to google maps and choose random spots on both cities. In SF you'll likley find a crammed urban space. In Philly, you may find an abandoned broad road with some sparse brick buildings, a parking lot, and an open field. The urban fabric in Philly is much, much less consistant.
I'll never know?....only 240 plus posts so far in the debate. I'm staying out of the fray.
Those are nice, but I wonder why SF still has a higher transit-to-work rate among workers age 15+?
According to American Factfinder Community Survey, US Census Bureau, 2005-2009
Percentage of Workers, Age 15+ Who travel to work on public transit, 2005-2009
San Francisco City, CA 32.4% of all workers
Philadelphia City, PA 29.5% of all workers
And at the Metro Level, the SF MSA actually has more folks using PT to work.
Workers, Age 15+ who travel to work on public transit, 2005-2009
San Francisco MSA 298,863...14.4% of all workers
Philadelphia MSA 253,770....9.2% of all workers
At CSA level, both regions do quite abysmally(but then, everywhere except NY is pretty low)
Workers, Age 15+ who travel to work on public transit, 2005-2009
San Francisco CSA 342,689 9.8% of all workers
Philadelphia CSA 258,536 8.5% of all workers
Philly also has the highest percentage of people who walk to work of any major metro
San Francisco beats Philadelphia 4-1 on Lincecum's pitching to win the series....2-1
The Giants added a bat, yes, but are still built on pitching. Tim Lincecum paved the way to a series win over the Phillies.
This is the first series that the Phils have lost since early June, and only the 3rd or 4th series they lost this year. But do enjoy seeing Lincecum pitch...
I see. So how large of an area would include the Philly suburbs that maintain the continuous 10K+ density in total combined with Philly itself? Just kind of curious to see how large of an area Philly and the Bay are relatively even for.
I need to dig a little more and pull out the details but it is ~2 million people in about 200 sq miles. Will work on that though will be a bit, traveling for some client meetings today. I did this before in a Chicago comparison. Another thing to remember is that this is all touching each other, meaning not seperated by bays etc..
Also Montclair listed some places and at pretty good density figures through Oakland and extended. Some were like 17-18 miles. I am not even adding these places in Philly to get to the 2 million and 200 sq miles. But in about that distance you have areas like Trenton at nearly 12K ppsm (where the gap falls in between to 7K before building up again) or the towns along the Delaware river which have high density and areas of Wilmington DE also with high density.
Now I do think SF has a dense and built up area but the footprint of continuous higher density is likely a little (well probably somewhat considerable as the difference in the size of the footprint may be ~ the size of SF proper itself) smaller.
On the transit numbers I am not sure which exactely Montclair referenced but the the Septa daily ridership number is about 1.05 million per day and Septa serves only about 3.8 million of the area because of the state affiliation (excluding the NJ/DE/MD portions of the MSA). Also the subway system in Philly has ridership density of about 15K person per mile per day - just for comparison the much touted and great DC Metro achieves only 9,500 person per mile on ridership with its very high volume (a great system though). Bart for comparison achieves 3500-4000 person per mile, also a pretty good system.
I wish the subway system were more expansive and as mentioned above Philly has the highest percentage of people who walk to work (exceeding NYC, Boston, or SF for that matter) and many of zips in Center City have more than 30% who walk to work (this in the area with a population of 200K in the broader area of Center City and nearly 60K people that walk to work in this area alone)
And for what its worth this is somewhat interesting for the area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lammius
I did some poking around the NYC/Philly/NJ/CT areas and the highest count I could find was in little old Peapack, NJ: 29,229,169. I hoped I could find a place somewhere over 30 million, but alas I could not. Maybe with 2010 Census figures we'll be a bit closer in some places.
I thought somewhere farther south might pull in enough from the Baltimore, Philly, and NYC areas to come in higher, but in moving south to get Baltimore, you take away too much of the densely populated areas of CT, Long Island, etc. Turns out that being between Philly and NYC, and a bit west of the axis (less ocean), and a bit north of halfway, gets you the highest numbers.
Philly also has the highest percentage of people who walk to work of any major metro
i'm one of them! I honestly sometimes joke that i got caught in the rush hour traffic on the sidewalk. between 8 - 9 am the sidewalks are packed with people walking to work in center city.
when I walk through old city where there is often a huge tree on the street side of the sidewalk and obtrusive basement entranced on the house side, the sidewalk is about one person wide and I constantly find myself having to slow my pace due to people walking in front of me that I don't have enough room to pass. sidewalk rage! haha just kidding walking to work is relaxing as can be.
Philly also has the highest percentage of people who walk to work of any major metro
I dont know where you get this stat from but the latest single year census stat says the SF MSA has a higher rate of walking to work than the Philadephia MSA
2009 American Factfinder Community Survey, US Census Bureau
Walked to Work, 2009
San Francisco MSA 4.3%
Philadelphia MSA 3.7%
At CSA level, they are both 3.6%. At city level, Philadelphia has a rate of 8.6% and SF has a rate of 10.2%.
Quote:
And more than twice the amount of bicycle commuters of any large city.
I dont know where they get this data from, but the Census Bureau's data does not substantiate this claim.
SF has a higher city, MSA and CSA rate of bicycling to work than Philadelphia according to the 2009 American Factfinder.
Not saying the govt is absolutely right and you are absolutely wrong, but the govt stats on these specific subjects don't agree with the claims made above.
I dont know where you get this stat from but the latest single year census stat says the SF MSA has a higher rate of walking to work than the Philadephia MSA
Not saying the govt is absolutely right and you are absolutely wrong, but the govt stats on these specific subjects don't agree with the claims made above.
I'm thinking maybe the stats posted above for Philly were for the core of the city. SF probably would have a higher rate of bicyclist/walking commuters when factoring in the entire city limits of each (although I have known people who bike to work from 8-10 Miles outside of Center City)
Last edited by 2e1m5a; 07-29-2011 at 10:26 AM..
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....only 240 plus posts so far in the debate.
I'm staying out of the fray.
