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Pick a route and tell me how you get 7.5 Million people?
Here are the counties between Philadelphia City and New York City along the 95 freeway: 2010 Census:
Hudson, NJ 634,266
Essex, NJ 783,969
Union, NJ 536,499
Middlesex, NJ 809,858
Mercer, NJ 366,513
Burlington, NJ 448,734
Camden, NJ 513,657 Total: 4,093,496
Still, doesnt really overwhelm this...
Counties in between Sacramento City and San Francisco City on the 80 freeway: 2010 Census
Alameda, CA 1,510,271
Contra Costa, CA 1,049,025
Solano, CA 413,344
Yolo, CA 200,849 Total: 3,173,489
There are three main routes depending on where you start and end.
But to use 95 (weird history on this one because 95 changes roads along the way actually)
It goes from Philly to Bucks, Mercer, Burlington (This is the interesting one because the direct route on 95 goes from Bucks (Philly MSA) to Mercer (NY) and the Back into the Philly MSA in Burlington), Mercer Again, Monmoth (you excluded), Middlesex, Union, Essex, Hudson, Bergen (you excluded) then into Manhattan and accross to the Brx
Your excluded counties add an additional 2.0 million people by your methodology. Somerset misses 95 by about 2 miles and would be included in the route 1 alternative route that parallels 95 just to the west
More with the 'comingling', 'interplay' talk that is totally irrelevant to the conversation of Metro Areas combining.
Please debate in terms that are in concert with MSA and CSA guidelines and not your own personal view of what could and should be.
yep
So as per the data supplied yesterday shows Mercer now has the commuter rates to connect to the NYC MSA, with this movement Burlington County now makes the connection of the NYC and Philly MSA as a CSA, correct?
There you go numbers dont lie right, NYC and Philly are now one big CSA or connected region based on the same exact criteria that combine the bay area, correct?
More with the 'comingling', 'interplay' talk that is totally irrelevant to the conversation of Metro Areas combining.
Please debate in terms that are in concert with MSA and CSA guidelines and not your own personal view of what could and should be.
So people that cross these borders are somehow irrelevant?
Should people only be counted in one direction from SJ to SF, just curious oh great one, or is the mutli-directional realtionship relevant there as well?
That's your interpretation and I respect that, but I disagree.
We do not drive through every county in New Jersey when traveling between New York and Philadelphia, in fact apart from a relatively tiny number of people who commute to Mercer County from the Philadelphia Area,the connection via jobs amont to grains of sand.
Furthermore, this insistence that NY and Philadelphia are in reality, a vastly intermingled, unoffically but actually unified, intermingled, interdependent region is a flat out inaccuracy.
That's just not true.
I wouldn't say that, straight from the Census Bureau in the Federal Register, "an area of virtually continuous urbanization exists from northeastern Maryland through the Philadelphia area, central New Jersey, the New York City area, and central Connecticut to beyond Springfield, MA. This area of near-continuous urbanization encompasses nine UAs defined for Census 2000... the areas may be cumbersome and less satisfactory for more localized applications"
Yeah, they're talking about UAs, not CSAs or MSAs, but even the Census acknowledges this place as generally one region on some levels. I'm not talking about commuters or TV markets or anything, but let's not go crazy. It isn't like NY and Philly are isolated from each other in any way, that is a flat out inaccuracy.
Thanks for linking to that Kidphilly, I forgot about it. Anywho, just passing through.
Location: NY-NJ-Philly looks down at SF and laughs at the hippies
1,144 posts, read 1,295,036 times
Reputation: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair
That's your interpretation and I respect that, but I disagree.
We do not drive through every county in New Jersey when traveling between New York and Philadelphia, in fact apart from a relatively tiny number of people who commute to Mercer County from the Philadelphia Area, the connection via jobs amont to grains of sand.
Furthermore, this insistence that NY and Philadelphia are in reality, a vastly intermingled, unoffically but actually unified, intermingled, interdependent region is a flat out inaccuracy.
That's just not true.
Ok, then..... Philadelphia to NY takes an hour drive. San Jose to San Francisco takes an hour drive. So, I guess this means San Jose and San Francisco are not "unified, intermingled"? Same time frame!
San Francisco to San Jose is 48 miles on the spot with no breaks in development like the way there is around Princeton. NYC to Philly is 97 miles.
NYC and Philly are two giant blobs that look like they're extending a hand to one another where San Jose to San Francisco is densely built to be one area in a strip along the bay. NYC and Philly have lots of breaks in development in central New Jersey, this doesn't happen in between San Francisco and San Jose. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/USA-Urban-Areas.svg
Location: NY-NJ-Philly looks down at SF and laughs at the hippies
1,144 posts, read 1,295,036 times
Reputation: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by mach5
San Francisco to San Jose is 48 miles on the spot with no breaks in development like the way there is around Princeton. NYC to Philly is 97 miles.
NYC and Philly are two giant blobs that look like they're extending a hand to one another where San Jose to San Francisco is densely built to be one area in a strip along the bay. NYC and Philly has a lot of breaks in development in central New Jersey, this doesn't happen in between San Francisco and San Jose. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rban-Areas.svg
Yet they take the same amount of time to arrive in the next city.....approximately one hour from SJ to SF or NY to Philly.
San Francisco to San Jose is 48 miles on the spot with no breaks in development like the way there is around Princeton. NYC to Philly is 97 miles.
NYC and Philly are two giant blobs that look like they're extending a hand to one another where San Jose to San Francisco is densely built to be one area in a strip along the bay. NYC and Philly have lots of breaks in development in central New Jersey, this doesn't happen in between San Francisco and San Jose. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rban-Areas.svg
Actually the closest point of NYC and Philly on the borders is 47 miles as the crow flies, but that is a poor representation. The real milage between Manhattan and CC is closer to 78 miles. An hour is a stretch but I have gotten fromRittenhouse Sq to the Holland tunnel in under 75 minutes. Traffice permitting which is a wildcard (is in SF as well).
There are also more than twice as many people that live in the space between NYC and Philly as live in between SF and SJ.
The other issue is that the dynamics are on a different scale. Almost like SF/SJ is Earth/Moon and NYC/Philly is Sun/Earth.
Also the route 1 corrider, not the NJ Turnpike through central Jersey is far more developed in this space, actually also the NE Corrider rail line is also moreso when compared to the NJ strip. I dont think they are exactly the same. To me Central Jersey is almost its own core so-to-speak with connectivity both directions to larger poles. Regardless both posses connectivity, greater and lessor depending on the vantage point
NYC and Philly at the poles are far more distinct than either SF or SJ
Your excluded counties add an additional 2.0 million people by your methodology. Somerset misses 95 by about 2 miles and would be included in the route 1 alternative route that parallels 95 just to the west
This would be hilarious were it in fact, funny.
At the end of the day, the only place where there is any 'interplay' is Mercer County, and even there, far more residents of MC work in NY than they do in Philadephia, hence its inclusion in the NY CSA.
Otherwise, you have a large urban conurbation that the govt has indicated it may combine into a single UA, but that is totally a different topic altogether from 'interplay' or combining into a single CSA, much less a single MSA and any suggestion is nothing more than flights of fancy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gateway Region
Ok, then..... Philadelphia to NY takes an hour drive. San Jose to San Francisco takes an hour drive. So, I guess this means San Jose and San Francisco are not "unified, intermingled"? Same time frame!
San Francisco and San Jose are a foregone conclusion and needs no sort of evidence as 241,000 people cross the SF/SJ MSA borders everyday specifically to WORK. 600,000 automobiles cross that border on 4 major freeways and so on.
Philadelphia and New York are roughly the exact same as San Francisco and Sacramento.
And the fact that you say it takes the same time to drive from Philly to NY(which is wrong btw) as it does to drive from SJ to SF only proves my point-there is worlds more traffic btwn SF and SJ than btwn Philadelphia and NYC---not even on the same planet. Thanks for proving that.
Last edited by 18Montclair; 09-15-2011 at 07:11 PM..
Reason: Removed reference to "pollster." Gateway Region is not "pollster."
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