Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I go off of visiting and living in cities as well as numbers. Please show the numbers that have San Fran closer to NYC. I wasnt trolling by the way.....
No one ever SAID that SF was close to NYC...where did I or anyone say that?
This is a comparison of LA, SF, and NYC.
Fact: by city population numbers, LA is closer to SF than NYC.
New York MSA: 18,897,109
Los Angeles MSA: 12,828,837
San Francisco MSA: 4,335,391
LA-NY: 6,068,272
LA-SF: 8,493,446
Fact: The REAL point of comparison that LA is possibly closer to NYC is from CSA numbers, which would also mean that SF Bay beats out Houston and Philadelphia, which you allege beat SF.
New York CSA: 22,085,649
Los Angeles CSA: 17,877,006
SF Bay CSA: 7,468,390
LA-NY: 4,208,643
LA-SF: 10,408,616
So in the sphere of population, LA is way closer to NYC on 1 measure, slightly closer to NYC on another, and 1 way closer to SF on the last.
In the sphere of economics, not even close.
1. New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA CSA $1.460 Trillion
Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT Metro Area $84,882
Kingston, NY Metro Area $4,755
New Haven-Milford, CT Metro Area $40,844
New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA Metro Area $1,280,517
Poughkeepsie-Newburgh-Middletown, NY Metro Area $22,440
Torrington, CT Micro Area
Trenton-Ewing, NJ Metro Area $26.680
2. Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA CSA $881.297 Billion
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA Metro Area $735,743
Oxnard-Thousand Oaks-Ventura, CA Metro Area $35,736
Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA Metro Area $109,818
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA CSA $544.969 Billion
Napa, CA Metro Area $7,015
San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA Metro Area $325,927
San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA Metro Area $168,517
Santa Cruz-Watsonville, CA Metro Area $9,697
Santa Rosa-Petaluma, CA Metro Area $19,888
Vallejo-Fairfield, CA Metro Area $13,925
On both the CSA and MSA levels, LA is both closer to SF than it is to NYC.
So, aside from CSA population, what else of the 'real world' do I need to know? Some unquantifiable things like "feel" which doesn't make sense because all 3 cities feel pretty distinct from each other. LA and NYC feel extremely massive, that's for sure, but NYC and SF have a more consistent dense feeling than LA City limits do (the SFV is way less dense than Central LA, etc.)
LA is a massive place and extremely populated, but its not tons closer to NYC aside from metro population and it's relative ranking on the US city ladder.
So yeah, aside from growing up here in LA, having lived in the Bay Area for 3 years, and living in NYC for 1, what else about the real world do you want me to know?
Uhm agian i am not trolling so drop the pretenntious "san fran" attitude" When you throw in amenities,etc....La is closer to NYC than San Fran .... i dont live in arbitrary numbers i live in reality.. fyi you need to redo your math for the gdp numbers.....
fyi you need to redo your math for the gdp numbers.....
No actually he doesn't LA, SF, NYC should in fact be evaluated from a CSA standpoint, the only metros that I can see a true CSA for are SF Bay Area, Boston, LA, Detroit, and NYC.
LA's CSA includes the inland empire and if you've been there its got 4 expressways leading into LA, its a complete bedroom community suburbia to LA. No identity, no performance, nothing on its own without LA.
SF Bay Area CSA is indisputably connected, people who normally deny this are either jealous or haven't been to understand the free flow of this region.
Boston's CSA is beautifully linked together and is inseparable as Boston sprawls outward it becomes less expensive real estate that former expat Bostonians are benefitting from today in places like Worcester, Providence, Concord, etc.
NYC's CSA has the same vicarious dynamics as Boston's, as the inner city and inner even outer suburbs are pricing out, more are willing to live further away but making the commute into NYC on a daily basis.
Detroit's CSA is ll connected together by a large string of developments.
CSA's like DC/Baltimore have no place to be making the same claims. What with all the millions of people who live in DC never going to Baltimore even once in their lives and millions in Baltimore rarely touching ground in DC for anything more than a day visit. Its a joke to say they're the same metro, I live here and am a native of Maryland and for those that don't live here or understand they need to stop grasping we're the same metro. DC is just fine on its own as it is.
I go off of visiting and living in cities as well as numbers. Please show the numbers that have San Fran closer to NYC. I wasnt trolling by the way.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by qc dreamin
Uhm agian i am not trolling so drop the pretenntious "san fran" attitude" When you throw in amenities,etc....La is closer to NYC than San Fran .... i dont live in arbitrary numbers i live in reality.. fyi you need to redo your math for the gdp numbers.....
So which is it? Do you live with numbers, or do you not live with numbers? And I think you need to retake math or something.
CSA level
NYC (1460 billion) - LA (881 billion) = $579 billion
LA (881 billion) - SF (544 billion) = $337 billion.
MSA level NYC (1280 billion) - LA (735 billion) = $545 billion
LA (735 billion) - SF (326 billion) = $409 billion
Yeah, I was off by $1 billion for NYC-LA on MSA level. What have you shown so far?
I've analyzed it from BOTH a CSA level AND MSA level, but you choose to ignore it. That really isn't anyone's problem but you.
If you think that LA is closer to NYC, fine, that's your opinion. But don't start yammering away about something like "numbers" when the numbers don't necessarily support your point of view. If it's something unquantifiable, then I understand.
FYI: I live in LA, and work for the County. I'm not from San Francisco. Nice attempt at a ad-hominem attack.
Last edited by Lifeshadower; 09-17-2011 at 01:26 PM..
I go off of visiting and living in cities as well as numbers. Please show the numbers that have San Fran closer to NYC. I wasnt trolling by the way.....
San Francisco and New York pretty much run away with this one...
Socio-economically speaking, San Francisco is demographically more similar to Manhattan than any of the other places you mentioned in your previous post:
Median Family Income: San Francisco City, CA $87,355 Manhattan, NY $81,480
Washington City, DC $70,311
Boston City, MA $61,687
Chicago City, IL $53,161
Los Angeles, CA $52,950
Houston City, TX $47,933
Philadelphia City, PA $45,826
Households Earning $200,000+ Annually: Manhattan NY, 16.6% San Francisco City, CA 12.1%
Washington City, DC 9.8%
Boston City, MA 6.3%
Los Angeles City, CA 6.0%
Houston City, TX 4.8%
Chicago City, IL 4.5%
Philadelphia City, PA 1.9%
Housing Units Valued at $1 Million+ Manhattan, NY 40.8% San Francisco City, CA 28.0%
Los Angeles City, CA 15.2%
Washington City, DC 10.3%
Boston City, MA 6.2%
Chicago City, IL 3.0%
Houston City, TX 1.6%
Philadelphia City, PA 0.7%
And to put it mildly, a person can sense this if they've been to all these places.
San Francisco and New York pretty much run away with this one...
Socio-economically speaking, San Francisco is demographically more similar to Manhattan than any of the other places you mentioned in your previous post:
Median Family Income: San Francisco City, CA $87,355 Manhattan, NY $81,480
Washington City, DC $70,311
Boston City, MA $61,687
Chicago City, IL $53,161
Los Angeles, CA $52,950
Houston City, TX $47,933
Philadelphia City, PA $45,826
Households Earning $200,000+ Annually: Manhattan NY, 16.6% San Francisco City, CA 12.1%
Washington City, DC 9.8%
Boston City, MA 6.3%
Los Angeles City, CA 6.0%
Houston City, TX 4.8%
Chicago City, IL 4.5%
Philadelphia City, PA 1.9%
Housing Units Valued at $1 Million+ Manhattan, NY 40.8% San Francisco City, CA 28.0%
Los Angeles City, CA 15.2%
Washington City, DC 10.3%
Boston City, MA 6.2%
Chicago City, IL 3.0%
Houston City, TX 1.6%
Philadelphia City, PA 0.7%
And to put it mildly, a person can sense this if they've been to all these places.
Ehh..LA is also a MUCH larger entity (population and physical size) than Manhattan or San Francisco, to play devil's advocate. I took the liberty of trying to find an LA region the size of SF/Manhattan with the same sort of socio-economic status and I think the Westside comes reasonably close (albeit physically larger).
Westside - Mapping L.A. - Los Angeles Times Westside LA
Population: 529,427 (2000)
Size: 101.28 square miles
Education: 53.2% have a Bachelor's Degree or Higher
Income: ~$100,000 (don't have time to sift through the data for each individual neighborhood right now, but based on the data, it supports this)
I'll get house values later, when I have more time.
However, once you compare metro areas and CSA's, SF/NYC are way closer to each other as a whole than LA is to either one of them. That can be empirically verified.
Cities don't matter in 2011 as much as they did in 1940, most of the population for all these cities live in suburbs in the greater context of determining relevance cities are minuscule to metros. Every city has its desirable parts with high median income but its a drop in the bucket unless you look at the health of the entire metro and as Lifeshadower already pointed out that is one area where SF and NYC are closer.
LA is still the #2 in this country, not Chicago, not DC, not SF, not Boston, not Houston. Size does matter and don't let anyone tell you otherwise
LA may be #2. But it's a pretty weak #2. LA's GDP per capita lags substantially behind many other large U.S. cities.
The federal government decided to open the borders and we have a very significant part of the population that didn't graduate high school dragging our numbers down. I would be surprised to find that LA County had more adults over 25 that graduated college than dropped out of high school. Even now almost 50% of LAUSD doesn't graduate. Hard to say that we've bottomed out until that changes.
LA may be #2. But it's a pretty weak #2. LA's GDP per capita lags substantially behind other major U.S. cities.
I'm in the middle of your argument and the arguments of others.
I think looking at just size is irrelevant in that case Mexico City or Mumbai would be some of the most powerful cities in the world where they lack is the performance to be it and the sanitary health conditions for simplistic lifestyle of millions. On the other hand looking at just the performance and wealth of a region is minuscule in the grand scheme of things when it lacks the size to be bigger, greater, more center stage. Monaco is rich and powerful but is tiny and wont ever have the size to be NYC or Paris.
DC of course has the government and it has the productivity to make an argument for #2 but it lacks the size. At 5.86 million it simply has to try that much harder to match LA's 18 million. LA having an output of near $885 billion isn't impressive for its size as DC's $430 billion for having less than 1/3 the size but in the end LA's $885 billion has a louder voice than DC's $430 billion. DC for this reason IMO is behind Chicago also for now.
In 15-20 years I do believe that it will become more indisputable that DC is our country's #2 city but as of right now while it trails LA and Chicago, it has to accept that its outdone by bigger cities.
BTW if you were wondering how I got 5.8 million for DC instead of 5.5 I simply gave DC Culpeper, Lexington Park, and Winchester mircropolitan areas that traverse into the greater DC CSA I put them in with DC's MSA.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
