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Old 08-16-2012, 01:07 PM
 
Location: NY, NY
1,219 posts, read 1,612,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis Street View Post
Penn Station has four major rail agencies all planning expansions (Amtrak, Metro North, LIRR and NJ Transit). The Union Station agencies (MARC, VRE and Amtrak) do not have comparable traffic, and won't ever, short of a disaster-movie style event wiping NYC and environs off the map.
Penn Station does not have Metro North trains. The biggest rail expansion in NYC is actually the East Side Access which will bring the LIRR into Grand Central. Once this is completed, Grand Central will be the busiest station in North America.
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:26 PM
 
11,059 posts, read 12,815,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Market East is fully connected to all regional rail lines (philly has three stations in Center City that all RR lines go to, regional rail is bascially another subway between 30th and Market East today with another underground Suburban station in the heart of the West Market CBD) plus Septa Subways, Subway Surface Trollys underground here already, and PATCO subway already are there with current stations connecting to ME regional rail. As a station it is already fukly connected and fully multimodal (as much as 30th sans the AC NJT line and the Amtrak metro/nec acela and harrisburg services)

Seems like a lot of money for saving a little time. 30th would still serve the slower trains on Amtrak and this is both capactiy and speed

BTW I heard this morning that today 75% of air/rail travel is on Amtrak for routes between DC and Boston. This is up from 34% prior to the Acela

But this option is solely the new HSR and also adds capacity which the NEC (between Philly and NYC) runs out by 2025 I believe


This is the regional rail station ME today


SEPTA - Market East Station - YouTube


SEPTA Regional-Rail at Market-East Station - YouTube


The HSR would be attached likely perpendicular alignment and deeper with tunnel boring

Who knows is a lot of money but is getting more and more attention since originally discussed with Amtrak

This helps the whole of the NE corrider though, plus 37 minutes from Market Street to Broadway
Ok, should be nice.
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:13 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,682 posts, read 50,666,673 times
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Grand Central is awesome.
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:00 AM
 
Location: In the heights
31,020 posts, read 29,813,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
Of all of them, I enjoy Grand Central the most. The architecture (inside and out), shopping (while not the most), and dining(while not the most either) are excellent. I've been to each of these stations and Grand Central Terminal is the most pleasant experience. Union in D.C. would be my next choice.

Color me unimpressed with the "volume" of people at ANY U.S. railroad station. Having been through Shinjuku Station in Tokyo at rush hour, Penn Station may as well be a farm in rural Nebraska in terms of the amount of people. Penn serves 300,000 passengers daily. Shinjuku serves more than 3.5 million daily. You want to see a lot of people? Go there.

*edit*
I feel obligated to comment on South Station as a Bostonian.

It's pretty in the primary waiting area and on the exterior (at least, the Dewey Square facade). It feels quite a bit smaller than the others (because it is), but it does seem to be buzzing with activity at most hours regardless of the size.

My biggest beefs with S. Station? The connectivity to the Bus Terminal is weak from the train station. It's essentially a separate unit. The food options suck. Shopping? What shopping? There is terrible connectivity to North Station, especially considering it's only about a mile away. I don't think the North-South rail link is feasible, but it's ridiculous that one would have to get on the red line and switch to either the green or orange just to cover such a short distance. Why there isn't a light rail connection along the Rose Kennedy Greenway is beyond me (esp. seeing as it would pass right by the Aquarium, Rowe's Wharf, Faneuil Hall, and the North End). I like South Station, but boy does it have some flaws.
What's so bad about the north-south link idea? It seems to make a lot more sense because then you wouldn't have to constantly expand the yards for both of them at their stations as the population expands and you have to run more trains. Also, through-routing like that means that people can quickly go from one end of the metro to another without transferring at the station. It kind of seems like Boston could get themselves a good S-Bahn going for a pretty decent price.
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Jersey City
6,854 posts, read 17,657,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
What's so bad about the north-south link idea? It seems to make a lot more sense because then you wouldn't have to constantly expand the yards for both of them at their stations as the population expands and you have to run more trains. Also, through-routing like that means that people can quickly go from one end of the metro to another without transferring at the station. It kind of seems like Boston could get themselves a good S-Bahn going for a pretty decent price.
Yeah, think the Feds are going to help finance another Big Dig in central Boston?
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
11,073 posts, read 21,494,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis Street View Post
Union Station will never be close to Penn Station. Get real.

There are currently 750,000 daily train passengers to Penn Station.

Union Station has something like 50,000 daily passengers.

And Penn Station has vast, vast expansion plans that dwarf anything in North America. The entire block of 8th to 9th Avenue between 29th & 30th streets will be demolished for the expanded Penn Station. And the first stage of the expansion, the Moynihan Station (now underway) is a billion-dollar project (and that's just the reuse of the old post office).

Then separately, there are plans for huge concourses west into Hudson Yards, and a new concourse is being planned heading north to Times Square.

Penn Station has four major rail agencies all planning expansions (Amtrak, Metro North, LIRR and NJ Transit). The Union Station agencies (MARC, VRE and Amtrak) do not have comparable traffic, and won't ever, short of a disaster-movie style event wiping NYC and environs off the map.
With amtrak, VRE, marc and the red line, Union Station ony gets 50k passengers?

Last edited by kcmo; 08-21-2012 at 10:37 AM..
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:36 AM
 
Location: The City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
With amtrak, VRE, marc and the red like, Union Station ony gets 50k passengers?

Dont know about 50K but do know on the whole (not just Amtrak) it is considerably behind Penn and Grand Central. It is alos pretty far behind 30th Street (with Amtrak, Speta RR, NJT, the MFL Subway, and three subway surface trolly lines underground). I think Union may also be behind Penn Newark NJ which has Amtrak, NJT, and Path.

Union is a really gorgeous station though, was just through there again a few weeks ago
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Dont know about 50K but do know on the whole (not just Amtrak) it is considerably behind Penn and Grand Central. It is alos pretty far behind 30th Street (with Amtrak, Speta RR, NJT, the MFL Subway, and three subway surface trolly lines underground). I think Union may also be behind Penn Newark NJ which has Amtrak, NJT, and Path.

Union is a really gorgeous station though, was just through there again a few weeks ago
I use Union Station a few times a week and there are just thousands of poeople pouring off the metro, amtrak and commuter trains. Probably passes 50k by 7am. I don't really know the numbers though.

DC's Union Station is amazing. KC's is amazing too, but few know about it and it's barely used anymore for trains.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:53 AM
 
Location: The City
22,402 posts, read 35,069,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
I use Union Station a few times a week and there are just thousands of poeople pouring off the metro, amtrak and commuter trains. Probably passes 50k by 7am. I don't really know the numbers though.

DC's Union Station is amazing. KC's is amazing too, but few know about it and it's barely used anymore for trains.

Yeah I saw a show on old stations and think they may have shown the KC station, many greta old ones. Think St Louis had a fantastic one as well.

On Union with 4.5 Million annual Amtrak it is about 12K per day. This link Union Station (WMATA station) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia says Union on the red line has another 32K so assuming VRE and MARC are smaller than Amtrak (not sure) the 50K range may make sense.

Also there a ton of tourists at Union so that 50K number is definately lessor than the number that go through the station on any given day.

On a side note I love these old building and when walking to Union to pick up one of the night double decker bus tours (highly recommend was quite spectacular as a tour) I passed and stopped in the architectural museum (may have the wrong name) a few blocks away and wow what a great atrium. gorgeous. (This picture doesn not do it justice)


Attached Thumbnails
Rank the Major Train Station's in the Northeast consisting of NYC,DC,Philly,Bos,Balt-img_1225.jpg  
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
11,073 posts, read 21,494,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Yeah I saw a show on old stations and think they may have shown the KC station, many greta old ones. Think St Louis had a fantastic one as well.

On Union with 4.5 Million annual Amtrak it is about 12K per day. This link Union Station (WMATA station) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia says Union on the red line has another 32K so assuming VRE and MARC are smaller than Amtrak (not sure) the 50K range may make sense.

Also there a ton of tourists at Union so that 50K number is definately lessor than the number that go through the station on any given day.

On a side note I love these old building and when wlaking to Union to pick up one of the night double decker bus tours (highly recomment was quite spectacular as a tour) I passed and stopped in the architectural museum (may have the wrong name) a few blocks away and wow what a great atrium. gorgeous. (This picture doesn not do it justice)

Yea, I’m not disagreeing with the number, it just seems low. Ever tried to navigate that place during rush hour?

I have never been inside Philly’s station (I know I know, wtf haha). I’ll be in philly probably this weekend or next week, so I may have to check it out.
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