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View Poll Results: What urban center has the WORST PT system
Boston 19 7.17%
Chicago 12 4.53%
New York 13 4.91%
Philadelphia 86 32.45%
San Francisco 118 44.53%
Washington DC 17 6.42%
Voters: 265. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-08-2016, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
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Given San Francisco's size and importance, it is the worst.
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Old 05-09-2016, 12:48 PM
 
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I actually think SF is worse than Philly, although they are close. It's probably easier to get around SF though because its smaller and a bit more compact.
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Old 05-09-2016, 01:02 PM
 
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I am embarrassed to say that WMATA is clearly the worst major subway system at this moment in time. Being on the left of many issues, I really have no problem with being charged a reasonable local tax for metro upkeep and to keep the fares in check. The last few weeks have been crazy and the conspiracy theorist in me wonders if all this is being done on purpose. When this thread was started, we may not have been the worst but I can't think of any system in the country having the issues we are currently having at present.
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Old 05-09-2016, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Providence, RI
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Originally Posted by TheTraveler_ View Post
I actually think SF is worse than Philly, although they are close. It's probably easier to get around SF though because its smaller and a bit more compact.
It definitely is. BART's a good system, but it's a regional network with 8 stations in San Francisco. It's designed, first and foremost, to transport people from the suburbs into the city. Caltrain is one line along the peninsula. Amtrak doesn't actually come into the city of San Francisco. There are good ferries. And Muni Metro is a light rail network akin to Boston's Green Line where all of the branches converge in a central subway tunnel in the urban core (which is redundant with BART's coverage along Market in the city center) and fan out and run on surface roads outside of the city center. MUNI Metro is painfully slow outside of the central tunnel. The bus network is big, but it's also painfully slow. The F-Line and and Cable Cars are as much of a tourist attraction as they are functional.

San Francisco really is a notch behind New York, Chicago, Boston, DC, and Philadelphia in terms of transit. On the other hand, it's arguably the most walkable of the bunch (especially when factoring in weather year-round) and is incredible bike friendly. So while it lacks in terms of public transit, it still is a very easy city to navigate without a car.
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Old 05-09-2016, 02:17 PM
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Location: Western Massachusetts
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I'd say San Francisco's buses are a better than Boston's — gridded system and slightly better coverage and frequency. All door boarding also speeds up the system. I'm not sure if the Green Line (excluding the D line) is that much better than MUNI Metro; MUNI may have worse frequency. difference is more of the dense corridors where transit is important is better covered by grade separated rail in Boston than San Francisco. Other than the Mission (maybe Castro & Cole Valley with a mostly subway MUNI connection?), few dense neighborhoods close to downtown have a good rail connection.
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Old 05-09-2016, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Providence, RI
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
I'd say San Francisco's buses are a better than Boston's — gridded system and slightly better coverage and frequency. All door boarding also speeds up the system. I'm not sure if the Green Line (excluding the D line) is that much better than MUNI Metro; MUNI may have worse frequency. difference is more of the dense corridors where transit is important is better covered by grade separated rail in Boston than San Francisco. Other than the Mission (maybe Castro & Cole Valley with a mostly subway MUNI connection?), few dense neighborhoods close to downtown have a good rail connection.
I think it is. They're comparable in the central parts of the city, but the Green Line functions better above ground with mostly dedicated ROWs (a few small exceptions on the E past Brigham Circle whereas MUNI Metro runs in the street. The worst stretches of the Green Line (B line by BU) are comparable to how almost all of MUNI Metro is while above ground. Frequencies are fewer and the stops so frequent combined with fact that it runs in the street vs. designated ROW makes a trip outside of the tunnel on MUNI Metro an absolute slog. I would agree that buses are better in SF. Altogether, all of the metros listed in this poll are better served by public transit in the urban center than San Francisco is.
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Old 05-09-2016, 02:52 PM
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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
I think it is. They're comparable in the central parts of the city, but the Green Line functions better above ground with mostly dedicated ROWs (a few small exceptions on the E past Brigham Circle whereas MUNI Metro runs in the street. The worst stretches of the Green Line (B line by BU) are comparable to how almost all of MUNI Metro is while above ground. Frequencies are fewer and the stops so frequent combined with fact that it runs in the street vs. designated ROW makes a trip outside of the tunnel on MUNI Metro an absolute slog. I would agree that buses are better in SF. Altogether, all of the metros listed in this poll are better served by public transit in the urban center than San Francisco is.
Good point; it's been a while since I used the Green Line. A long segment of the N Judah line runs on its own run of way though:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/41...466243!6m1!1e1

and again has all door boarding unlike the Green Line.
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Old 05-09-2016, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
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Green line in Boston is supposed to be getting rid of a couple B-line stops at BU. If it were up to me the B-line would go:

Boston College - Chestnut Hill - Washington Street - Harvard Ave - BU Central - Kenmore Square. It'd be much more tolerable.
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Old 05-09-2016, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Good point; it's been a while since I used the Green Line. A long segment of the N Judah line runs on its own run of way though:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/41...466243!6m1!1e1

and again has all door boarding unlike the Green Line.
True the N does have a section with designated ROW. The boarding system in SF is definitely a lot better above ground. They're also better about catching fare evaders. I can't tell you how many times I've been on trains in SF where authorities have boarded from all doors and scanned clipper cards and checked transfer receipts and issued tickets to anyone who couldn't provide proof of purchase. I've seen in far more in SF than in Boston and I ride transit in Boston infinitely more than I do in SF. Boston needs to do more of that.
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Old 05-09-2016, 04:03 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
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Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
True the N does have a section with designated ROW. The boarding system in SF is definitely a lot better above ground. They're also better about catching fare evaders. I can't tell you how many times I've been on trains in SF where authorities have boarded from all doors and scanned clipper cards and checked transfer receipts and issued tickets to anyone who couldn't provide proof of purchase. I've seen in far more in SF than in Boston and I ride transit in Boston infinitely more than I do in SF. Boston needs to do more of that.
Much of the T-Line/3rd St line has it's own ROW too:https://goo.gl/maps/YHpzyDwJaCz

Parts of the M-Line as well: https://goo.gl/maps/N1mswCaTsaF2

But yes overall it's too slow with too much of the system sharing a ROW. They are extending the Muni Metro into Chinatown in a subway with eventual plans to North Beach and Fisherman's Wharf. Long over due as that area of SF has virtually no rail.
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