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View Poll Results: Which has a better Downtown
Philadelphia 190 62.09%
Seattle 116 37.91%
Voters: 306. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 11-16-2011, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
456 posts, read 675,421 times
Reputation: 330

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
I understand where you're coming from but this thread is a comparison the downtown areas of the two...is Capitol Hill considered downtown?
This is a bit off tangent but I think interesting when thinking about the two cities:

Today's NY times had a story that focused on income inequality and used Philadelphia asa an example

Shrinking Middle as Income Inequality Rises - Graphic - NYTimes.com

Seattle in general is much more prosperous, I think the median income is 50% or so higher, and the poverty rates 1/3 of Philadelphia's. Its still very much a city with middle class neighborhoods.

Ben
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:44 PM
 
443 posts, read 771,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
I understand where you're coming from but this thread is a comparison the downtown areas of the two...is Capitol Hill considered downtown?
No, but Pioneer Square and Belltown are considered part of the downtown, and both are lively at night. However, these areas are not the true core, I suppose. Philly's center core is definitely much more lively, no doubt. But I think it is one of the true exceptions there. Even Chicago, Boston, and San Francisco do not have very lively CBDs at night.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:45 PM
 
Location: The City
22,402 posts, read 34,181,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benleis View Post
This is a bit off tangent but I think interesting when thinking about the two cities:

Today's NY times had a story that focused on income inequality and used Philadelphia asa an example

Shrinking Middle as Income Inequality Rises - Graphic - NYTimes.com

Seattle in general is much more prosperous, I think the median income is 50% or so higher, and the poverty rates 1/3 of Philadelphia's. Its still very much a city with middle class neighborhoods.

Ben

In the DTs or city itself. The DT of Philly is actually very wealthy and there is also a lot poverty in the city overall, not so much DT or the area that sorrounds it. Also the areas sorrounding CC Philly have gotten younger and wealthier.

Center City gets younger - Philly.com
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
4,920 posts, read 13,050,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
In the DTs or city itself. The DT of Philly is actually very wealthy and there is also a lot poverty in the city overall, not so much DT or the area that sorrounds it. Also the areas sorrounding CC Philly have gotten younger and wealthier.

Center City gets younger - Philly.com
And the suburbs more than makeup for the loss of middle class workers in the city . City boundaries are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The region of Philly is anything but poverty stricken as bendeis was trying to allude to.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
15,397 posts, read 20,458,258 times
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Philadelphia>>>>>


Skyline Shots of Philadelphia - YouTube


Philadelphia Aerial Footage - YouTube


Philadelphia (HD) - YouTube
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:09 PM
 
1,108 posts, read 2,019,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
Conversely, looking at Census Tracts 81-85 in Seattle, which appear to encompass a pretty wide "downtown" range, the 2010 population stands at 17,956.

2010 Census Interactive Population Map
Youre missing tracts 80.01, 80.02, 92, 91, and parts of 72 and 73, which definitely qualify as downtown, and those add an additional ~20,000. Your definition doesn't include Belltown, West Edge, much of the waterfront, or Denny Triangle. On the other hand, 84 is not really downtown, but that only subtracts about 3,000.

A reasonable, conservative estimate based on this data is 35,000.
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
456 posts, read 675,421 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
In the DTs or city itself. The DT of Philly is actually very wealthy and there is also a lot poverty in the city overall, not so much DT or the area that sorrounds it. Also the areas sorrounding CC Philly have gotten younger and wealthier.

Center City gets younger - Philly.com
Yes I agree, the point of the info graphic is that the Philadelphia region has become a lot more economically stratified over the last 40 some years. The city as a whole is a lot poorer with pockets of wealth in the center and much less middle class folks living within the overall area. This is a different trajectory from where Seattle is and to some extent effects how you live within the city. Center city right now is a demographic anomaly for the rest of the city. This affects the experience on the ground in alot of ways, from school system quality, the politics of the different neighborhoods, the ability to walk around the entire city, the cohesiveness of your built environment etc. Downtown in effect has a wealthy/poor boundary that doesn't really exist in Seattle where the surrounding neighborhoods have much less stratification (not to say it hasn't increase here as well just that the phenomena is much less advanced) And that's my tangential connection to the topic


Ben
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:39 PM
 
Location: The City
22,402 posts, read 34,181,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benleis View Post
Yes I agree, the point of the info graphic is that the Philadelphia region has become a lot more economically stratified over the last 40 some years. The city as a whole is a lot poorer with pockets of wealth in the center and much less middle class folks living within the overall area. This is a different trajectory from where Seattle is and to some extent effects how you live within the city. Center city right now is a demographic anomaly for the rest of the city. This affects the experience on the ground in alot of ways, from school system quality, the politics of the different neighborhoods, the ability to walk around the entire city, the cohesiveness of your built environment etc. Downtown in effect has a wealthy/poor boundary that doesn't really exist in Seattle where the surrounding neighborhoods have much less stratification (not to say it hasn't increase here as well just that the phenomena is much less advanced) And that's my tangential connection to the topic


Ben

Fair enough though to be fair there are more people of both high and low incomes in Philly comparatively (but it is a much larger city). Also it isnt just CC, the neighborhoods that sorround include more than 300K in "wealthy areas" and then lots of wealth in the NW of the city and the Far NE is still strongly middle class as well as a decent chunk of S Philly being middle class. Definately a doughnut city though, wealthy core with poverty then more wealth in the burbs. Public schools in Philly are bad, though some are very good, they are extremely fragmented.

There is no shortage of wealth in metro though and the education in burbs is excellent, some of the best in the country not to mention amazing colleges and universities, but the city has some very challenged neighborhoods with far too much poverty, good or bad to you point these neighborhoods are very isolated and segmented from the wealthy areas.

As far as being to walk around, Philly is far larger and difficult to walk the whole city but will also there is no shortage of safe places to walk and cohesively. On cohesiveness, that is an aspect of Philly that is far superior and the ability to walk from place to place in the great DT area. But yes North and West Philly have some very undesireable areas no doubt
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Old 11-17-2011, 05:49 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
5,730 posts, read 13,727,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
From the standpoint of livability, what does Downtown Seattle lack compared to Downtown Philadelphia?

I think they are both terrific downtowns, but it all depends on what a person is looking for.

These outright dismissals are very strange and reak of insecurity.

Seattle has a spectacular downtown. People need to get real.
This is exactly the way I feel. And this is coming from someone who lived on the east coast for over 25 years. Hmmm. The poll results don't look like a total dismissal of Seattle. Just like I predicted. Not that I even take these polls seriously.
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Old 11-17-2011, 08:10 AM
 
63 posts, read 62,852 times
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Philadelphia is undergoing so much revitalization that your statement is obsolete. As few as five years ago I'd have agreed with that assessment but the situation today is different. Green spaces, bike lanes, and connectivity are the core concepts behind Philly's renaissance. Center City is now connected to a plethora of revitalized neighborhoods and the Philadelphia Housing Authority has taken apart the 'projects' - as have many other northeastern cities - and built new low income housing that is integrated with the urban fabric. All that's left are small pockets of crime, which massively distort the cities crime statistics, and are isolated in distant neighborhoods that are all but impossible to find unless you deliberately go looking for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benleis View Post
Yes I agree, the point of the info graphic is that the Philadelphia region has become a lot more economically stratified over the last 40 some years. The city as a whole is a lot poorer with pockets of wealth in the center and much less middle class folks living within the overall area. This is a different trajectory from where Seattle is and to some extent effects how you live within the city. Center city right now is a demographic anomaly for the rest of the city. This affects the experience on the ground in alot of ways, from school system quality, the politics of the different neighborhoods, the ability to walk around the entire city, the cohesiveness of your built environment etc. Downtown in effect has a wealthy/poor boundary that doesn't really exist in Seattle where the surrounding neighborhoods have much less stratification (not to say it hasn't increase here as well just that the phenomena is much less advanced) And that's my tangential connection to the topic


Ben
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