Cities with Higher Train than Bus Ridership vs. Cities with Higher Bus than Train Ridership (live, state)

[Chicago60614]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

That's very interesting. With prices being so high to build rail, many places are going to BRT. I believe D.C. is going to have higher bus ridership than rail ridership by 2030. Montgomery County and Fairfax County are building extensive BRT systems though I think Montgomery Counties will be far more extensive than Fairfax.

Here are the plans for Montgomery County:

-150 stations
-16 lines
-peak headway's will be as frequent as every 2-3 minutes on the busiest corridors


-148.3 system total miles
-two-way guideway only 24 miles
-one-way guideway only 48 miles (rush hour direction)
-guideway and bus lane 27 miles
-bus lane (both direction) 1 mile
-bus lane (one direction) 7 miles
-no guideway or bus lanes 44 miles
-26 Queue Jump Intersections
-TSP 176 intersections
-367 platform stations at 150 sites (median and curb)
-209 Concrete pads
-430 total bus fleet

http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/co...mary110426.pdf

Chicago is getting in on the BRT as well. Currently they are starting construction on 3 BRT lines, with another three in the future. That's from the CTA.

Just recently though, the Fed's awarded Chicago $153 million to jump-start a much larger network. That network is in the planning stages, and involves 10 new BRT lines covering 95 miles of city streets. The big difference between the new proposals and the CTA's:

1) Dedicated bus-only lanes with seaparation from street traffic.
2) Pre-paid boarding before you get on the buses to speed up travel times.
3) Wide doors with level boarding
4) Signal prioritized intersections with bus priority

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

Chicago is getting in on the BRT as well. Currently they are starting construction on 3 BRT lines, with another three in the future. That's from the CTA.

Just recently though, the Fed's awarded Chicago $153 million to jump-start a much larger network. That network is in the planning stages, and involves 10 new BRT lines covering 95 miles of city streets. The big difference between the new proposals and the CTA's:

1) Dedicated bus-only lanes with seaparation from street traffic.
2) Pre-paid boarding before you get on the buses to speed up travel times.
3) Wide doors with level boarding
4) Signal prioritized intersections with bus priority

Interesting! How are they doing their Pre-Paid boarding. D.C. area systems are going to use smart trip cards where you just tap the sensor when you board at multiple entrances. I think this may be the absolute best way because fair jumping would be out of control here. They will have paper pre paid fairs for people without smart trip cards also that you pay for at the stations. That fair is higher though. Does Chicago use a card for fairs also?

[cabasse]

Originally Posted by nei

Seems like the only American cities with higher train than bus ridership are NYC, DC and Boston.

atlanta has slightly higher train ridership as well, especially since the bus cuts that went through a few years back. 242k daily rail, 207k bus.

[KodeBlue]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

Which cities have higher train ridership than bus ridership? Which cities have higher bus ridership than train ridership? Do buses work better than trains? Reason's why? Do trains work better than buses? Reason's why? Why does your city prefer their mode over the other mode? Do you think it will always stay that way? What improvements are going on now that will enhance your cities transportation network?




Criteria:

-City must have both options

-Included cities are NYC, DC, CHICAGO, SAN FRAN, LA, BOSTON, PHILLY, ATLANTA, DALLAS, PORTLAND, BALT, PITT, MIAMI, SAN DIEGO, SALT LAKE, MINN, DENVER, ST.LOUIS, CLEVELAND


Source for Reference:
http://www.apta.com/resources/statis...rship-APTA.pdf

You have a disturbing obsession with public transportation.

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by KodeBlue

You have a disturbing obsession with public transportation.

No, Im in urban planning and transportation is actually my focus. Transportation is the economic engine for a region. It's allows agglomerate focused economies to exist. People have no clue how important it is to remain a healthy functioning region.

[Chicago60614]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

Interesting! How are they doing their Pre-Paid boarding. D.C. area systems are going to use smart trip cards where you just tap the sensor when you board at multiple entrances. I think this may be the absolute best way because fair jumping would be out of control here. They will have paper pre paid fairs for people without smart trip cards also that you pay for at the stations. That fair is higher though. Does Chicago use a card for fairs also?

Chicago has had the tap cards for about 6-7 years now and dip cards for much longer (the cards you dip into the machine and it spits back out). My employer reloads my tap card before tax from my paycheck once a month, and then I just tap it at the train stations or on any bus in the city and it lets me through. It's an unlimited pass. So for me there is no card to dip in a slot or run through a machine or any cash anywhere. I just keep the small piece of plastic in my wallet and never take it out - the machine reads it when I push my wallet against the little circle.

The BRT buses would work the same way with the same tap cards. I know now they're getting the chips that are part of a credit card as well so you don't have to carry around the little white piece of plastic like now.

People who dont have the tap cards (which are hooked up to your bank account to auto-load) will use machines on the BRT at every station (1/2 mile apart) to buy tickets or recharge their cards if they already have a transit card. They're finishing up swapping out the current transit-card purchase machines with ones where you can use credit cards/debit cards or cash to reload your cards.

I very rarely ever see anyone using cash in Chicago. The only place you possibly could would be a bus.

As far as the future - here's the brand new system they're just now implementing, apparently the first in the nation:

Open Fare System
CTA is moving toward a fare system based on open standards for payment
Updated 11/15/2011

The Chicago Transit Board today approved a new, open fare collection system that will benefit customers, improve operations and save money for the CTA.

The new system will use “contactless” credit, debit and bank cards, as well as CTA-branded prepaid cards. CTA patrons will simply “tap” their contactless card on a card reader to board trains and buses. (The current Chicago Card and Chicago Card Plus use contactless technology).

The new system is intended to eliminate the multiple magnetic-stripe cards and the proprietary Chicago Card/Chicago Card Plus currently used for fare payments. Those without credit cards or debit cards will be able to purchase prepaid contactless cards at over 1,000 new locations, and cash fares will still be accepted on buses.

The CTA will maintain full control of fare policy, without the responsibility of day-to-day maintenance and collection activities.
Implementation will include a transition period in which all current fare media will be accepted, as well as an extensive public-education campaign.

Chicago will be the first major U.S. city to launch an open fare system.


Benefits
Convenience
For most riders, contactless cards will eliminate the need to carry and maintain separate cards or worry about having exact change. The system will allow riders to use their own credit/debit cards (including cards you may already have), or cell phones that have their own industry-standard contactless chips (commonly known as NFC, or “near-field communication”).

For those who don’t have bank-issued cards, prepaid cards will be available at over 1,000 retail locations at the start of the transition, and 2,000 by the time the system is fully implemented—this far exceeds the 700 locations currently available for purchasing CTA fare media. Our goal is to have retail locations within one-third of a mile from any of our approximately 12,000 bus stops (that’d be less than two full city blocks).

People will still be able to pay with cash on buses.

Efficiencies
This will help improve efficiencies in several areas of the system. Since nearly all entries to our system will be “tap and go,” that’s less time people will spend waiting in queues at turnstiles and less time buses need to sit while people board and pay fares. Magnetic cards have helped with this, but still take time than a contactless transaction.
Fewer vending machines will be needed in busy stations as a result of people being able to use cards they already have, in addition to the significant increase in places to purchase or add value to prepaid cards.

The way this contract is designed will offload much of the management of fare collection to private partners, but still allow CTA to continue maintaining full control of its fare policy (meaning that it won’t be controlled by a private entity) without the responsibility (and expense) of day-to-day maintenance and collection activities. This allows us to focus our efforts on our core mission: providing convenient, reliable service.

Cost savings
There are a few ways that this approach will save CTA money:

•Eliminates costs of creating/distributing/managing CTA cards
•Reduces fare maintenance and collection costs
•Resolves need to upgrade/maintain current fare-collection equipment that is past its useful life
•Minimizes risk while maximizing revenues
•Estimated savings over the term of agreement is over $50 million

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

Chicago has had the tap cards for about 6-7 years now and dip cards for much longer (the cards you dip into the machine and it spits back out). My employer reloads my tap card before tax from my paycheck once a month, and then I just tap it at the train stations or on any bus in the city and it lets me through. It's an unlimited pass. So for me there is no card to dip in a slot or run through a machine or any cash anywhere. I just keep the small piece of plastic in my wallet and never take it out - the machine reads it when I push my wallet against the little circle.

The BRT buses would work the same way with the same tap cards. I know now they're getting the chips that are part of a credit card as well so you don't have to carry around the little white piece of plastic like now.

People who dont have the tap cards (which are hooked up to your bank account to auto-load) will use machines on the BRT at every station (1/2 mile apart) to buy tickets or recharge their cards if they already have a transit card. They're finishing up swapping out the current transit-card purchase machines with ones where you can use credit cards/debit cards or cash to reload your cards.

I very rarely ever see anyone using cash in Chicago. The only place you possibly could would be a bus.

As far as the future - here's the brand new system they're just now implementing, apparently the first in the nation:

Yes, I'm sure you guys will have many great innovative things soon. We are getting the same thing with the credit cards. Gabe Klein did a great job here as head of DDOT. I see he is doing a great job for you also in Chicago. We hated that we lost him. The drama with our new mayor and him was just a mess. But I'm happy for Chicago. He built Capital Bike Share here first and now he is doing the same for Chicago. You will love him.

[2Easy]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

We are getting the same thing with the credit cards.

So is most everyone at some point. My understanding (from a WMATA press release a couple of years ago) is that the credit card technology is being developed in concert with (Visa?) on a worldwide scale so that you would be able to use the same card in DC, NYC, LA, or London and it would work automatically. That would be pretty cool.

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by 2Easy

So is most everyone at some point. My understanding (from a WMATA press release a couple of years ago) is that the credit card technology is being developed in concert with (Visa?) on a worldwide scale so that you would be able to use the same card in DC, NYC, LA, or London and it would work automatically. That would be pretty cool.

Yes it would. Globalization!

[KodeBlue]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

No, Im in urban planning and transportation is actually my focus. Transportation is the economic engine for a region. It's allows agglomerate focused economies to exist. People have no clue how important it is to remain a healthy functioning region.

I understand that, but there's more to a region than buses and trains. If you keep this up, public transportation threads will go the way of the skyline threads.