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Sound like someone needs to take a trip to these cities rather than asking on a forum. Its the only good way to see for yourself if they compare or not.
I shouldn't be asking it on this forum? What is this forum for then?!? Just to group cities into silly tiers and then yell at each other like 12 yr olds? How old are you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezter
I honestly don't think Denver or Minnneapolis are extremly better, but I do think they are slightly above.
I have only been to NO, and to me the downtown area was pretty cool, but didn't really have anything that made me think that it was an amazing downtown (other than the french quarter, and a few other neighborhoods around it)
Right, so as I suspected you have no clue what you are talking about. So why are you trying to answer a question that was obviously not directed to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezter
But if you haven't been to denver or minneapolis, what makes you think that their downtown areas are on the same level? Just wondering.
Why shouldn't they be on the same level? They all have roughly the same population and none of them (except for NO) are known for anything particularly outstanding. A few months ago I started a thread to discuss the most interesting "second tier" cities east of Missouri. People mentioned Baltimore, Pittsburgh and St Louis a lot. A few mentioned Cleveland. Not one person (if I recall correctly) mentioned MPLS. Not one. And now all of a sudden I see its downtown being rated on the same level with Seattle and multiple tiers higher than Pittsburgh/Cleveland/NO. Don't you think it's a reasonable question to ask why? Or you don't think I should be asking this question on a website call "City-Data" ... instead I should fly for three hours from NY to MPLS - in the middle of winter - to check for myself?
I have been to Seattle and understand why people would rank it highly. I haven't been to MPLS and Denver and therefore want to hear from people who have personal experience with all these cities: are MPLS and Denver really on the level of Seattle and significantly better than Pittsburgh, Cleveland, NO and Baltimore, as some people have indicated in their rankings? Does anyone have youtube clips or photos showing the level of activity in downtown MPLS and/or Denver on a normal weekday?
I have been to these cities. Are downtown Minneapolis and Denver on the same level as downtown Seattle? Absolutely not. Are Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Baltimore, etc. on the same level as downtown MPLS and Denver? IMO, no, but the gap between this group of downtown areas isn't as large as the gap between downtown Seattle and downtown MPLS & Denver (hopefully this makes sense). Keep in mind we are discussing downtown areas. The vast majority of US downtown areas have next to nothing when it comes to shopping options, transportation options, little residential populations, little in regards to cultural amenities, etc... Downtown MPLS & Denver just happen to have a bit more overall than most and I've gotten a different vibe from these two areas than I have while visiting other downtown areas.
Good summation! I agree, it is on the other side of Canal. My guess, ppl are going to say LoDo is dontown Denver, Rittenhouse is downtown Philly, North beach/soma is downtown SF and so on. Most cities have an adjacent neighborhood that smoothly transitions into the CBD. That's what makes all I'd our major cities in our country so cool. Btw, I'm a huuuuge fan of the cities I called out.
North Beach isn't really part of downtown SF, though I guess the southern part is almost there. Downtown SF equals: the financial district, much of SOMA (the financial district south, rincon hill, yerba beuna gardens/moscone center, and pretty much everything along mission street from there to van ness avenue), Union Square, The Tenderloin, the sourthern and eastern part of Nob Hill, the southern part of Chinatown, and Civic Center;
Why shouldn't they be on the same level? They all have roughly the same population and none of them (except for NO) are known for anything particularly outstanding. A few months ago I started a thread to discuss the most interesting "second tier" cities east of Missouri. People mentioned Baltimore, Pittsburgh and St Louis a lot. A few mentioned Cleveland. Not one person (if I recall correctly) mentioned MPLS. Not one. And now all of a sudden I see its downtown being rated on the same level with Seattle and multiple tiers higher than Pittsburgh/Cleveland/NO. Don't you think it's a reasonable question to ask why? Or you don't think I should be asking this question on a website call "City-Data" ... instead I should fly for three hours from NY to MPLS - in the middle of winter - to check for myself?
Very few people have ranked downtown Minneapolis with downtown Seattle. BTW, when ranking cities east of Missouri, would most people even think of Minneapolis? After all, it MPLS is northwest of St. Louis. That being said, have perhaps you've been thinking Indianapolis this whole time.
Anyway, here are few stats for the cities mentioned:
I have been to these cities. Are downtown Minneapolis and Denver on the same level as downtown Seattle? Absolutely not. Are Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Baltimore, etc. on the same level as downtown MPLS and Denver? IMO, no, but the gap between this group of downtown areas isn't as large as the gap between downtown Seattle and downtown MPLS & Denver (hopefully this makes sense). Keep in mind we are discussing downtown areas. The vast majority of US downtown areas have next to nothing when it comes to shopping options, transportation options, little residential populations, little in regards to cultural amenities, etc... Downtown MPLS & Denver just happen to have a bit more overall than most and I've gotten a different vibe from these two areas than I have while visiting other downtown areas.
Yes, it does make sense. So would you say that your initial list, in which you ranked MPLS and Denver one tier below Seattle, but two tiers above Pittsburgh/Baltimore/NO, and three tiers above Cleveland -- which prompted my queries -- should perhaps be revised?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unity77
Using this logic one could say Minot, ND has one of the nation's best downtown areas when it clearly doesn't due to the FACT that it fails to meet some or in this case, all the criteria that the op listed or the criteria that an urban geek such as myself would consider crucial for a successful or vibrant downtown area to have (i.e. cultural amenities, downtown population, shopping options, transportation options, pedestrian-friendliness, density, architecture, etc.). Anyway, here is my initial ranking:
1. Manhattan
2. Chicago
3. San Francisco
4. Boston, Philadelphia, Washington D.C.
5. Seattle
6. Portland, Minneapolis, Denver
7. Indianapolis, Los Angeles
8. Baltimore, Cincinnati, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, San Diego
9. Cleveland, Milwaukee, St. Louis, San Antonio, Kansas City, Nashville
10. Austin, Salt Lake City, St. Paul, Charlotte, Fort Worth
The following would fit somewhere between tier 7 and 10 - Atlanta, Detroit, Miami, Dallas, Phoenix, Raleigh, Houston
Yes, it does make sense. So would you say that your initial list, in which you ranked MPLS and Denver one tier below Seattle, but two tiers above Pittsburgh/Baltimore/NO, and three tiers above Cleveland -- which prompted my queries -- should perhaps be revised?
If you do recall, I stated it was my initial list, meaning I didn't spend hours thinking about it and there could be changes made. That said, should I have included Baltimore, Cincinnati, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, and San Diego with Indianapolis and Los Angeles, yes. Would I Cleveland to the group, no. Los Angeles could probably moved up too, but I will leave it for now.
1. Manhattan
2. Chicago
3. San Francisco
4. Boston, Philadelphia, Washington D.C.
5. Seattle
6. Portland, Minneapolis, Denver
7. Indianapolis, Los Angeles, Baltimore, Cincinnati, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, San Diego
8. Cleveland, Milwaukee, St. Louis, San Antonio, Kansas City, Nashville
9. Austin, Salt Lake City, St. Paul, Charlotte, Fort Worth
The following would fit somewhere between tier 7 and 10 - Atlanta, Detroit, Miami, Dallas, Phoenix, Raleigh, Houston
Very few people have ranked downtown Minneapolis with downtown Seattle. BTW, when ranking cities east of Missouri, would most people even think of Minneapolis? After all, it MPLS is northwest of St. Louis.
I was pretty clear about the geographic area I was talking about - east of the Kansas/Missoury line -- but maybe some misunderstood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unity77
Anyway, here are few stats for the cities mentioned:
I see little here that would indicate that MPLS and especially Denver are markedly better than the others. MPLS does have a substantilly larger workforce, but I am not sure how much difference an extra 50k make, in the grand scheme of things, particularly when they rarely venture outside 6 mths out of the year. Again I could be wrong, but these stats do not show much of a difference. There are other factors - nightlife, tourist attractions and amount of tourists -- that are far more important.
I was pretty clear about the geographic area I was talking about - east of the Kansas/Missoury line -- but maybe some misunderstood.
I see little here that would indicate that MPLS and especially Denver are markedly better than the others. MPLS does have a substantilly larger workforce, but I am not sure how much difference an extra 50k make, in the grand scheme of things, particularly when they rarely venture outside 6 mths out of the year. Again I could be wrong, but these stats do not look very convincing.
6 months more like 3 they rarely go out Dec. Jan. And Feb. March-November is Bearable almost everywhere in the lower 48 besides Florida.
I was pretty clear about the geographic area I was talking about - east of the Kansas/Missoury line -- but maybe some misunderstood.
I see little here that would indicate that MPLS and especially Denver are markedly better than the others. MPLS does have a substantilly larger workforce, but I am not sure how much difference an extra 50k make, in the grand scheme of things, particularly when they rarely venture outside 6 mths out of the year. Again I could be wrong, but these stats do not look very convincing.
Ah. You're ignorance is showing by stating, "they (people) don't rarely venture outside 6 months out of the year." There is a reason why the Minneapolis area ranks high when it comes to be fit and it doesn't have anything to do with sitting inside for 6 months. Minnesotans love the outdoors throughout the year.
Anyway, downtown Minneapolis and Denver outrank the others and not just because of workforce and residential populations, but because of amenities, transportation options, shopping and dining options, etc...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzrovian
Yes, indeed I am very ignorant about MPLS and Denver. I stated that right upfront! I don't have much interest in visiting these cities so I am using this site to educate myself.
That's your problem, not mine or anyone else's, but you supposedly live in Manhattan so, you get a free pass for not knowing jack about other cities, right? You obviously have major misconceptions (i.e. the people rarely venture outside 6 months out of the year comment) so, I don't care to continue this discussion. All I can suggest to you is to do a bit more travelling.
Last edited by Unity77; 01-20-2012 at 12:52 PM..
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