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Old 02-13-2012, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
11,108 posts, read 23,892,595 times
Reputation: 6438

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^ enough with the CSAs. I'm sick of seeing pop stats for CSAs! Cleveland is NOT a metro of nearly 3 million people for example. It doesn't feel one or look like one. It looks and feels like a metro of about 2 million. Akron has nothing to do with Cleveland and how it compares to other metros. Nothing against Cleveland.

Same with the most the rest of those cities. Orlando and freaking Datona Beach?

Charlotte goes from 1.7 MSA to 2.4 CSA??

I get tampa/st pete/clearwater (although shouldn't that just be a MSA)

Denver/Boulder too.

But some of the CSA's out there are stupid.

Sorry, pet peeve.

 
Old 02-13-2012, 08:20 PM
 
Location: MIA/DC
1,190 posts, read 2,254,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
^ enough with the CSAs. I'm sick of seeing pop stats for CSAs! Cleveland is NOT a metro of nearly 3 million people for example. It doesn't feel one or look like one. It looks and feels like a metro of about 2 million. Akron has nothing to do with Cleveland and how it compares to other metros. Nothing against Cleveland.

Same with the most the rest of those cities. Orlando and freaking Datona Beach?

Charlotte goes from 1.7 MSA to 2.4 CSA??

I get tampa/st pete/clearwater (although shouldn't that just be a MSA)

Denver/Boulder too.

But some of the CSA's out there are stupid.

Sorry, pet peeve.
Tampa has no CSA that was the MSA. Denver feels like a metro of 3 million and so does Tampa. Baltimore and St. Louis feel like metros of 3 million as well. Ok your right Orlando feels 2 million not 2.8 million and Cleveland feels 2 million and not almost 3 million but Tampa, Baltimore, and St. Louis are all practically tied CSA or no CSA IMO
 
Old 02-13-2012, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
11,108 posts, read 23,892,595 times
Reputation: 6438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyman11 View Post
Tampa has no CSA that was the MSA. Denver feels like a metro of 3 million and so does Tampa. Baltimore and St. Louis feel like metros of 3 million as well. Ok your right Orlando feels 2 million not 2.8 million and Cleveland feels 2 million and not almost 3 million but Tampa, Baltimore, and St. Louis are all practically tied CSA or no CSA IMO
I agree with all of that. I just saw those stats for Cleveland, Orlando and Charlotte and I was like seriously?
 
Old 02-13-2012, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
11,157 posts, read 14,006,045 times
Reputation: 14940
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
^ enough with the CSAs. I'm sick of seeing pop stats for CSAs! Cleveland is NOT a metro of nearly 3 million people for example. It doesn't feel one or look like one. It looks and feels like a metro of about 2 million. Akron has nothing to do with Cleveland and how it compares to other metros. Nothing against Cleveland.

Same with the most the rest of those cities. Orlando and freaking Datona Beach?

Charlotte goes from 1.7 MSA to 2.4 CSA??

I get tampa/st pete/clearwater (although shouldn't that just be a MSA)

Denver/Boulder too.

But some of the CSA's out there are stupid.

Sorry, pet peeve.
Some CSAs make sense though. Denver/Boulder does. In fact, Boulder county was actually included in the Denver MSA immediately following the 2000 census, however the MSA was later redefined. But from a guy who went to CU in Boulder for 4 years, there is definitely enough daily movement between Denver and Boulder to include Boulder as part of the Denver MSA. There is also a lot of development between the two cities, they are pretty much connected.
 
Old 02-13-2012, 08:48 PM
 
515 posts, read 987,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
Some CSAs make sense though. Denver/Boulder does. In fact, Boulder county was actually included in the Denver MSA immediately following the 2000 census, however the MSA was later redefined. But from a guy who went to CU in Boulder for 4 years, there is definitely enough daily movement between Denver and Boulder to include Boulder as part of the Denver MSA. There is also a lot of development between the two cities, they are pretty much connected.
Agreed, Boulder and Denver are basically connected with development, and they share media markets.

San Francisco and San Jose is another one that should be an MSA. To this day it still baffles me that they are split in two, whereas places like Dallas and Fort Worth are considered one.
 
Old 02-13-2012, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
11,108 posts, read 23,892,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarn View Post
Agreed, Boulder and Denver are basically connected with development, and they share media markets.

San Francisco and San Jose is another one that should be an MSA. To this day it still baffles me that they are split in two, whereas places like Dallas and Fort Worth are considered one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
Some CSAs make sense though. Denver/Boulder does. In fact, Boulder county was actually included in the Denver MSA immediately following the 2000 census, however the MSA was later redefined. But from a guy who went to CU in Boulder for 4 years, there is definitely enough daily movement between Denver and Boulder to include Boulder as part of the Denver MSA. There is also a lot of development between the two cities, they are pretty much connected.
Agree on both counts. Like I said, I was talking about Orlando, Cleveland and Charlotte being up there with Denver, Tampa/St Pete, St Louis and Baltimore.

Orlando, Cleveland and Charlotte are all barely 2 million metros while Denver, St Louis, Baltimore, Tampa Bay etc are all "legitimately" pushing 3 million. So they are nearly 1/3 larger, I don't care what the CSAs say.

If you think Orlando and Denver are even remotely in the same league as far as built urban continuous development, then you need to take some urban planning classes.
 
Old 02-13-2012, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
11,157 posts, read 14,006,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarn View Post
San Francisco and San Jose is another one that should be an MSA. To this day it still baffles me that they are split in two, whereas places like Dallas and Fort Worth are considered one.
Most definitely. And throw Oakland in there as well. If I am in San Jose and can can drive to San Francisco or Oakland without leaving town, then it's all one big happy MSA. This is also true of Los Angeles, Riverside, and Orange Counties.
 
Old 02-13-2012, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
11,108 posts, read 23,892,595 times
Reputation: 6438
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
Most definitely. And throw Oakland in there as well. If I am in San Jose and can can drive to San Francisco or Oakland without leaving town, then it's all one big happy MSA. This is also true of Los Angeles, Riverside, and Orange Counties.
Does anybody think that San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose is not one metro area? And while I can see why they removed Greeley from the Denver MSA, I don’t get why they removed Boulder. I mean Boulder is even part of the Denver cultural tax (stadiums etc). Lawrence is not even a part of the Kansas City CSA while Akron is part of Cleveland’s. I mean at least be consistent on this CSA stuff. I just think it should go away.

MSA should equal continuous urban development.

CSA should equal today’s MSA (massive 10-15 county areas)

Today’s CSA’s should go away. Orlando/Daytona Beach? No. That’s not one metro.
 
Old 02-13-2012, 09:03 PM
 
37,882 posts, read 41,970,495 times
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I think in some ways Denver can stack up to Atlanta since they play similar roles in their respective regions.
 
Old 02-13-2012, 09:05 PM
 
37,882 posts, read 41,970,495 times
Reputation: 27279
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Does anybody think that San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose is not one metro area? And while I can see why they removed Greeley from the Denver MSA, I don’t get why they removed Boulder. I mean Boulder is even part of the Denver cultural tax (stadiums etc). Lawrence is not even a part of the Kansas City CSA while Akron is part of Cleveland’s. I mean at least be consistent on this CSA stuff. I just think it should go away.

MSA should equal continuous urban development.
Urbanized area equals continuous urban development.

I agree with the concept of MSAs and CSAs using commuter rates, but things do get murky in areas where there is more than one primary city/employment center. That's when the "one standard fits all" formula doesn't quite give an accurate picture of things.
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