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Yea ok buddy keep telling yourself that, the U.S. would of beaten Texas in to submission just like the rest of the south
SMH.....This had nothing to do with the civil war. The Texas Revolution occurred in 1836. Civil War in the 1860's.
But in 1836, the American-born Texians had just whooped an upstart strong Mexican army. One that had defeated the Spanish and held their own against the invading French.
It would be a tossup between DC-Baltimore, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas and the San francisco Bay area. You cannot deny each of these cities have a good, solid argument that really is too close to call.
I really don't think there is a fourth right now.. All of them are growing very nicely (Bay Area will eventually have the fast-growing outlying metros incorporated so this area is still growing mightily fast). I'd consider these cities has having it's own class range which is smaller in size than the top three.
definitely Alamo. You can't compare a Losing Battle to winning the War. Are you kidding me.
The Alamo became an important outcry, but it was just that.
The Alamo was a decisive victory for the Mexicans, NOT for the Texans. You kidding me???
The Louisiana Purchase was a business transaction, NOT a war.
That is flawed reasoning. All of that would have happened in Boston, NY, Baltimore, etc etc. They didn't need Philly for that. Just happened to be in Philly. Just as likely to have happened in Baltimore.
Nothing special about the local itself that required that happening in Philly. America would have been America with or without Philly.
I could use your same reasoning. America would be America with or without Texas. See how stupid your reasoning is? I'm not discrediting Texas for it's accomplishments like you are discrediting Philly. It just baffles me why it is so hard for you to give Philly the credit it deserves. Philly was involved in and one of the central cities for the creation of the United States. Texas was not. Texas joined the U.S. because it couldn't support itself. The Northeast was surviving on it's own just fine and would have continued to succeed weather the Republic of Texas joined us or not. We would of eventually got into a war and destroyed texas and taken it over either way. Texas is important to the US NOW.... but it wasn't before. And if history didn't play out the way it did Houston would not have been called Houston... I'd be called like Franklin or Alexander or Buchanan or Lincoln or something lol.
That is flawed reasoning. All of that would have happened in Boston, NY, Baltimore, etc etc. They didn't need Philly for that. Just happened to be in Philly. Just as likely to have happened in Baltimore.
Nothing special about the local itself that required that happening in Philly. America would have been America with or without Philly.
There is no surer way to sound ridiculous than to act as though you know with certainly how the events of the past would have reacted to major changes that you impose upon them.
Would America exist without Philadelphia? who knows? Would it exist without Boston? Who knows? Unless you are in possession of a time machine and are capable of altering the existence of major cities than you have absolutely no idea how the revolutionary war played out without Philadelphia.
You have the right to assume America would exist today if Philadelphia never existed. But the fact is that is far from a certainty. Even if America was able to win independence without the existence of Philadelphia, to assume that America would resemble the America we know is quite a leap. After all it was William Penn in Philadelphia with the creation of the Charter of Privileges that many American ideals began to take shape with the creation of a government that promoted the equality of people of all creeds and races. Voltaire himself cited this act as the beginning of the enlightenment.
The fact is that the events that happened in Philadelphia were not "just as likely" to have occurred in Baltimore or any place else. Philadelphia was not just a place where they happened to meet. It was THE place to meet. It was by far the most populous city in the entire American colonies. When the British estimated the population of the American colonies in 1760 they found that roughly 1.6 million people lived in America... about 25,000 in Philadelphia. The only other cities over 5,000 were New York, Boston, and Charleston. It was the second largest city in the entire British Empire.
By the time the 1st Continental Congress met in Philadelphia in 1775, an estimated 40 thousand people lived in Metro Philadelphia, about twice the size of greater NYC, and more than four times the size of the Boston metro. Every other city was dwarfed.
It had surpassed Boston as the economic center and it was the home of the largest concentration of the wealthy in America... a source that would be drawn heavily upon during the war, most importantly Robert Morris.
It was also a cultural mecca. It was home to the most circulated newspaper in the colonies, the Pennsylvania Gazette, which had distribution into every American Colony and even into Great Britain. Home to Ben Franklin and his Poor Richard's almanac which has been cited as a major shaper of early American culture, values, and even humor. It was also the home of Thomas Paine, author of the Common Sense, the pamphlet that brought the desire of revolution to the common populace.
It was at once, the population, financial, and cultural center of the American Colonies. So no, Philadelphia was not just the place where people happened to meet, it was the only logical place to meet. Besides the fact of the matter is that they DID meet in Philadelphia. The Declaration of Independence was written and signed here. The Constitution was written and signed here. The Bill of Rights was written and ratified here. Play "what if" if you want, history does not change though, those events occurred here and it is impossible to say with any certainty if they would have occurred anywhere else.
These are documents that have a profound affect on not just the United States of America but the entire World, they were key events in the Age of Enlightenment.
The Texas Revolution and the Mexican American War were important wars in the History of the United States of America and particularly to Texas but they do not even come close to measuring up to the importance of the signing of the Declaration of Independence and the other events that happened in Philadelphia. On the world scale, the alamo?, the texas revolution? these are basically non events. Hardly anyone outside the United States or Mexico knows fact one about these conflicts. The Declaration of Independence however is an important part of world history and something people all over the world learn about.
It seems that some of you are only impressed by battles, and the signing of the most important documents in American history and literally being the birthplace of the United States does not impress you. Well in that case I'd like to inform you that Philadelphia was not just a place where people met and signed things. It was at the center of one of the major campaigns in the American Revolution. The Philadelphia Campaign was the British fight to take over Philadelphia, a central goal of theirs in the first part of the war. A campaign that included over a dozen battles, including one of the bloodiest in the entire American Revolutionary War, the Battle of Brandywine with over 1,300 either killed or wounded it is believed that only the Battle of Long Island surpasses it in causalities. All told the battles fought as part of the Philadelphia campaign included some of the largest and bloodiest battles in the American Revolution, in the end more soldiers from both sides died in Metro Philadelphia than any other place, a testament to how important Philadelphia was.
Be proud of your history, but please look at it in terms of reality. Comparing the Alamo to Independence Hall is ridiculous to every single person not residing in a Texas zip code.
Quote:
Originally Posted by H'ton
What most people in the United States don't seem to know about Texas is that if Texas did not decide to join the Unites States we would have two countries right now.
The leaders of the Republic of Texas SERIOUSLY considered remaining an independent nation and expanding westward. The Republic of Texas already contained parts of many Western States (gave them to the Unites States once they joined) and there was a push for them to expand westward all the way to the Pacific Ocean.
That's right, California would have been in the Republic of Texas. Imagine the United States keeping up with Texas and California because it would have been in a competing nation.
To assume that if they had not joined the U.S. the republic of Texas would include all of Texas and parts of California, with world class cities that even remotely resemble those that are located in the area today is quite a reach. Honestly to even project it as country that would still exist today is pretty unlikely. There is a reason Texas joined the U.S. Mexico did not recognize their independence and was going to fight to take Texas back. Texas joined the U.S. for security. I don't pretend to know what would have happened had Texas not done this, I do however think it is much more likely that Texas either staying a part of Mexico or the U.S.A. taking the area over at a later time are both much more likely outcomes than the republic of Texas being able to survive as an independent nation between the U.S. and Mexico much less thriving so much it would compete with America today.
Texas certainly has a wealth of History and there are many reasons to push for Houston or Dallas to be the fourth most important city in America. The fact is though that the amount of history and its importance in Philadelphia far surpasses the amount and importance of the history that occurred in Texas. To say otherwise is to look at history through very provincial, insular, rose tinted glasses.
philadelphia was important, but t could easily have been somewhere else. the events hat did occur were important, but the land it occured on was not of significance
philadelphia was important, but t could easily have been somewhere else. the events hat did occur were important, but the land it occured on was not of significance
Ridiculous. Did you not just read what I just wrote? The land had plenty of significance. It wasn't random chance that it happened in Philadelphia. Philadelphia was the Population, Financial, and cultural center of the American Colonies when the 1st continental Colonies met there first in 1774.
To say that they could have occurred somewhere else is just totally ridiculous. Using that logic you can discredit anything.
Boston is very important due to the sons of Liberty, the tea party and the first battles of the revolution. But if there was no Boston those events likely would have occurred elsewhere so Boston doesn't matter!
Gettysburg is very important due the role the battle there played in the course of the Civil War and that wars impact on America. But that Battle could have just occurred somewhere else!
See how ridiculous this is? Sure history could have happened differently. BUT IT DIDN'T!
There is only one course that history traveled down and we can only speak with certainty with the events that occurred along that course. If you start changing MAJOR parts of the make up the American Colonies, if you just simply subtract, the largest and most important city, and claim that without it everything would have happened just the same in another place, you are deluding yourself!
Sure our founding fathers would have likely met in 1774 whether there was a Philadelphia or not, either in NYC or Baltimore or wherever. But you have NO IDEA how that would have worked out. Maybe American wins it's independence anyway, but then again, MAYBE NOT.
To talk with such certainty about such ridiculous hypotheticals makes you look like someone desperately clutching at straws to somehow strip Philadelphia of historical importance.
The Declaration of Independence WAS written and signed in Philadelphia. The Constitution WAS written and signed in Philadelphia. Philadelphia IS the birthplace of this nation and the historical events that happened here are among the major events in the timeline of humanity!
Go ahead, play your absurd game of "what if", I prefer the facts of "what is" and in the real world the History of Philadelphia is undisputed and is much more important to the history of the world and this nation than the history of Houston.
Houston or Dallas have plenty of claims to argue they are the 4th most important city in the United States ahead of Philadelphia. I ASSURE YOU, HISTORY IS NOT ONE OF THEM.
Houston or Dallas have plenty of claims to argue they are the 4th most important city in the United States ahead of Philadelphia. I ASSURE YOU, HISTORY IS NOT ONE OF THEM.
you need to get your head checked if you think anyone is saying that. you have phantom images in your head.
what is being discussed here is the absurd assertion by some posters that getting the western half of the country was not a significant event
you need to get your head checked if you think anyone is saying that. you have phantom images in your head.
what is being discussed here is the absurd assertion by some posters that getting the western half of the country was not a significant event
Compared to the signing of the Declaration of Independence? Compared to the Constitution? It isn't. It's not even in the same ballpark.
Just because significant thing in history have occurred in the west, most importantly from a world perspective, the contributions of silicon valley, does not mean the acquisition itself rates highly in terms of world history. Important historical events themselves take much greater precedence over the many events that proceeded them. If you are to argue for the historical importance of Texas being tied to the fact that without Texas there is no California and thus no silicon valley, then you could just as easily take it back further. Without Independence there is no California, thus no silicon valley. Or even further. Without Columbus there would be no independence, and thus no California, thus no silicon valley. This could go on forever until you reach man evolving from apes as the apex of importance to humanity and every event that occurs afterwards listed in descending order in terms of importance. At some time you have to simply recognize the important historical events for what they are.
In world history the Texas Revolution is simply not important. In world history the Mexican American War is not important. Sorry but that's just the truth. To even begin to compare them to a key moment in the age of enlightenment is absurd.
Last edited by phillies2011; 03-22-2012 at 02:25 PM..
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