Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You're reaching, sir. And Ron Paul is from Pittsburgh, anyway.
It has nothing to do with growing up, because that sentiment would suggest that all cities with zoning are more "mature" than Houston when it comes to development and laying an urban foundation. We all know that's a load of bull. Houston has just arrived at a point where the way that it has developed in the past simply doesn't seem as practical.
Things are changing, but whether it's for the better or worse depends on who you're asking. We don't need to be Dallas. I'm all for improving Houston, but I'm against stripping away that which makes us distinct.
I'm cool with no longer having to see decaying shacks next to McMansions, but leave our Beer Can houses alone.
Ron Paul may be from Pittsubrgh, but the citizens from the SE corner of the Houston metro repeatedly elect him by very wide margins to represent their interests.
We disagree on one thing and agree (just a bit) on another. First, we disagree in whether the adoption of zoning represents a step in Houston's maturity as a city. I think it's time the city stop treating its environment like some teenager's messy bedroom. Since we can't just shut the door, residents and visitors alike are forced to look at that room. If these sloppy kids won't pick up, it's time the parents stepped in and laid down some rules. In this instance, zoning would provide the rules.
Where we agree is that I'd also hate to lose the Beer Can House. That said, I never lived next door to it nor would I. In this instance - yes I have a choice not to move next door. But, suppose I sank my savings into a new home somewhere else in town and my neighbor got it into his head to turn his house into a folk art shrine. I don't know how you'd feel, but I would not be at all happy.
I am not surprised my posts have incited some passions. As I stated earlier - there is a sizable percentage of folks in the Houston area who have bought into what I consider the non-sense proffered by developer-funded full-time property rights gadfly Barry Klein, who rails not only against zoning, but also historical preservation and metrorail (Biography - Barry Klein). Are folks aware this is one of Mr Klein's objections to zoning: "The policy of sustainability is part of a UN plan to reduce property rights world-wide." (http://houstontomorrow.org/uploads/Barry-Klein.pdf). If one cares to google him, you will see what I consider some fairly "out there" statements, not to mention some interesting social and political affiliations and memberships.
While I find such thinking a bit crackpot, I still think reasonable people can disagree on this matter. Folks are free to believe a lack of zoning is a net positive for Houston. After 26 years of exposure to the rationale for this philosophy yet seeing the results with my own eyes, I never bought it. I doubt any posters here will convince me otherwise.
WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What about Houston's Extraterritorial Jurisdiction?
The bulk of new homes are in the ETJ. Are we suggesting zoning for the City only or are we going to play catch up too with the ETJ? Houston now provides services for over 4M people over 1200 square miles. That is a huge area to be zoned
I think some middle ground is probably what is needed instead of strict zoning laws.
BTW JM02 I kinda like some of the pics you posted. I for one know that I hate the strict zoning in some places that I have lived. I don't want no darn church or a club keeping be up, I don't want a garage leaking oil all over the place, etc. I however don't mind little shops, stores, antique houses (like the ones you posted) in my neighborhood. In the south especially where cities are so spread out, I hated driving for a day and a half to find a chain restaurant for a quick bite. I am looking at you Atlanta, Dallas and San Antonio.
Ron Paul may be from Pittsubrgh, but the citizens from the SE corner of the Houston metro repeatedly elect him by very wide margins to represent their interests.
We disagree on one thing and agree (just a bit) on another. First, we disagree in whether the adoption of zoning represents a step in Houston's maturity as a city. I think it's time the city stop treating its environment like some teenager's messy bedroom. Since we can't just shut the door, residents and visitors alike are forced to look at that room. If these sloppy kids won't pick up, it's time the parents stepped in and laid down some rules. In this instance, zoning would provide the rules.
Where we agree is that I'd also hate to lose the Beer Can House. That said, I never lived next door to it nor would I. In this instance - yes I have a choice not to move next door. But, suppose I sank my savings into a new home somewhere else in town and my neighbor got it into his head to turn his house into a folk art shrine. I don't know how you'd feel, but I would not be at all happy.
I am not surprised my posts have incited some passions. As I stated earlier - there is a sizable percentage of folks in the Houston area who have bought into what I consider the non-sense proffered by developer-funded full-time property rights gadfly Barry Klein, who rails not only against zoning, but also historical preservation and metrorail (Biography - Barry Klein). Are folks aware this is one of Mr Klein's objections to zoning: "The policy of sustainability is part of a UN plan to reduce property rights world-wide." (http://houstontomorrow.org/uploads/Barry-Klein.pdf). If one cares to google him, you will see what I consider some fairly "out there" statements, not to mention some interesting social and political affiliations and memberships.
While I find such thinking a bit crackpot, I still think reasonable people can disagree on this matter. Folks are free to believe a lack of zoning is a net positive for Houston. After 26 years of exposure to the rationale for this philosophy yet seeing the results with my own eyes, I never bought it. I doubt any posters here will convince me otherwise.
Call it what you want, but the lack of zoning has hardly ruined the QOL for me or anyone else I've known personally. I've lived in another city with zoning, and I simply don't see the added pleasure. In my opinion, the aesthetics of Houston aren't nearly as troubled by a lack of zoning as they are by poor landscaping and urban design. That's what I've come to realize.
Conformity is overrated, but if you want it, you can have it in the suburbs...or Dallas.
I've had experienced in various cities and wondered what role zoning played.
NJ - some of the worst restaurants survived there (there were some great ones as well), was it zoning protecting them from the the bright light of competition at work?
Plano - Plano is built out for SF residential most say, however their are acres of open land along the tollway, 122 and Preston road to name but a few locations. I understand this land is zoned commercial or MF. The zoning was changed on a small commercial tract to let the owner sell for SF after not getting an offer in 30 years of ownership for a commercial use. The zoning authority recommended against this change in use as against the Master Plan. The market is speaking yet zoning experts ignore it?
N. VA - developers were required to pay for offsite road improvements as well as densities were set low so land prices were high resulting in slow sell of a more expensive product. Why was this a good density decision when it seems designed to keep property values high to what end? protect existing owners and school/road demand low?
How are these good zoning decisions? What would happen if no zoning was in place?
Call it what you want, but the lack of zoning has hardly ruined the QOL for me or anyone else I've known personally. I've lived in another city with zoning, and I simply don't see the added pleasure. In my opinion, the aesthetics of Houston aren't nearly as troubled by a lack of zoning as they are by poor landscaping and urban design. That's what I've come to realize.
Conformity is overrated, but if you want it, you can have it in the suburbs...or Dallas.
I never agree with Nairobi, but one of the things I do like about Houston is the lack of zoning. Houston's appearance issues are no related to zoning. Don't people like have convenience and personality?
I never agree with Nairobi, but one of the things I do like about Houston is the lack of zoning. Houston's appearance issues are no related to zoning. Don't people like have convenience and personality?
Lol why do people always have to point out that they never agree with me? I can't be that bad.
What cost impact does zoning have on those cities with it in varioius forms (lenient to strict)? Is that a measureable part of Houston's lower cost of living? If so why do LA have a high cost of living if they were in fact without zoning so long?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnhw2
I live in Plano which I am told is almost builit out residentially. But there are huge tracks of land on Preston Road, the N. Dallas tollway as well as along 121. Those tracts must be commercial. One small commercial tract owner recently got rezoned to residential. He claimed he owned the land for 30 years and never had an offer for commercial use so he wanted requested the change to residential. It was given to him but reluctantly by the zoning board as they didnt like a change in their master plan. Does this force residential development further out than it has to be and how does zoning adjust when their "plan" doesnt pass the market demand test?
If more land is available for its best use it lowers the cost. Plano is an example of over-zoning. Along Preston you have miles of dark red brick doctor's boxes. They just control too many things and you become subject to taste police who usually have bad taste.
So what kind of say does the everyday Houstonian have in development patterns in the city? Not disagreeing - just curious.
Not much. Its primarily the market. I'll contrast that with Atlanta where I've seen several neighborhood groups that want to prevent development of undeveloped lots that currently serve as greenspace. They don't want to buy it as a park. They just want the owner to keep it as it is. That is an alien attitude in Houston where the philosophy is that others shouldn't tell you what to do with YOUR land.
Houston isn't totally unlimited. Someone made the comment they could grow almost indefinitely to the west, but N, E and S there are definite limits, primarily due to wetlands. Much further South and they get into swampy coastal lands. East has several rivers and gets pretty swampy. Similarly Northeast is swampy. Beyond Conroe to the North is a national forest. West is unlimited, but distance creates a limit at some point.
If you have never lived in Houston, you don't understand the culture against zoning, with messages funded by developers and the politicians who take their contributions. Among wide swaths of the populous, the belief that no zoning is "good" for the city has taken on an almost religious-like certainty and therefore to even question it seems absurd. It should be no surprise Ron Paul hails from the Houston metro. There is a palpable strain of libertarianism that permeates the region, manifesting in an "I can do whatever I want with my property" mindset.
Every few decades, however, a couple of visionary politicians more concerned with QOL than with developer donations bring it up for a vote. The most recent vote was 1994 when it went down by a fairly close margin of 53 - 47%. Houston is growing up. I predict the next time it comes up for a vote, it might just pass. Incidents such as those above may have finally helped a majority of voters realize the downsides of no zoning.
I voted for it as well. They were going to do a very light zoning with I believe only 6 or 7 zones. Anything over 2 acres was "unzoned." You could do whatever you wanted with limits for things like height setbacks.
The biggest reason zoning failed was the minority community. Zoning and deed restrictions was used in the past to keep Africans Americans out of areas. It even kept Jewish people out of River Oaks. So it didn't get much support in the African American community. The libertarian leaning people were against it as well as those concerned about the corruption zoning can bring.
I'm not sure it will pass next time. The African American community is concerned about gentrification and a lot of non-zoning rules that have the same impact have been implemented. Also, development of high rises has slowed, which created the biggest concerns.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That said, I never lived next door to it nor would I. In this instance - yes I have a choice not to move next door. But, suppose I sank my savings into a new home somewhere else in town and my neighbor got it into his head to turn his house into a folk art shrine. I don't know how you'd feel, but I would not be at all happy. 
