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Old 10-01-2019, 03:35 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
In Pittsburgh’s case the city is doing better it seems than most other Rust belt cities but the Suburbs are on average worse off than your typical Rust Belt City so to a visitor the region probably seems more healthy than it actually is.
Aside from energy jobs, all the action is in the city of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County.
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Old 10-01-2019, 03:39 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Cincinnati is a squarely Rust Belt city that has definitively turned itself around with city, county, and metropolitan area growth.

Whether or not it's overblown depends on how much blowing there was. If it's that the whole city is booming, then yea. If it's a turnaround from double digit percentage loss and increasing investment into the city, then yea, a lot of Rust Belt cities have turned around and that's great.
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:54 PM
 
255 posts, read 159,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Grand Rapids is Midwestern but is/was it actually Rust Belt?
That's tough... to me, yes; but I also think Chicago is and there seems to be a great divide there. Perhaps it's my perception but there seems to be a different perception on CD compared to the real world.

In Grand Rapids' case, the region has always had a large manufacturing presence but much more diverse than other rust belt counterparts so it therefore didnt have as severe of a dip.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Louisville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Grand Rapids is Midwestern but is/was it actually Rust Belt?
Absolutely it was. Grand Rapids metro area has doubled in population since the 1960s, but it’s definitely gone through the ups, downs, and economic transitions that define Rustbelt cities. During the 1970’s Grand Rapids lost 10% of it’s population and it’s downtown core was nearly abandoned. It’s population losses would have started in the 1960’s and had been much more severe, had the city not doubled it’s land areas through annexations in the late 50’s. Those annexations hid the true condition of the city by numbers, similar to what happened in Kansas City. Today Grand Rapids has over 200k with it’s highest recorded population. What’s less clear is if the cities original boundaries would be at peak population without the big suburban Southeast side.

As a previous posts point out Grand Rapids was never dependent on one single industry, and had over 100 smaller manufacturing firms. Where places like Flint had like 5 major facilities holding 80% of the employment base. Grand Rapids also benefits from having a disproportionate number of billionaire families(for the size of the city)located in the region. In the last 30 years they have been instrumental in its transition from a strictly manufacturing based region, to more of a knowledge based/bio science economy.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Louisville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
The rest of the Rust belt not so much. Cuyahoga County is on pace for a ~3% decrease Wayne County ~5% while better than the disaster of the 2000s is worse than the 90s.
I think it’s worth pointing out that while Wayne County has posted losses since 2010, Detroit’s metropolitan area as a whole has been posting population gains since 2010. The argument can be made that no other city has collapsed to the level Detroit has, but it’s metro area has been more resilient than some of it’s Rustbelt counter parts.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:16 PM
 
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I agree for the most part, as much as is true. People have been saying that about Pittsburgh for years now, and the population is still stagnant at 301,000 and even still declining ever so slightly. By all accounts Pittsburgh *should* be turning around and making a bit of a comeback. It's a relatively hip, attractive mid size city. Millennials who love mid size urban cities find Pittsburgh attractive for its hills and rivers/bridges, low cost of living, and education, healthcare, and growing tech sectors.

Pittsburgh hasn't even had a dirty reputation for years. It's old days of smoggy skys and polluted rivers is how boomers and maybe gen Xers still think of Pittsburgh, but millenials don't attach that to present day Pittsburgh and certainly not generation Z.

Now for a city like Cleveland, I don't think that city's really attractive to any young people as a place to raise a family. The scenery's ok, but the city's reputation is almost comical. There are those Cleveland song videos on YouTube with millions of views; not very good for the city's reputation. Other widely known things associated with Cleveland are the river catching fire and the mass balloon pollution the city caused in the 80s. Definitely not known as the most environmentally friendly city in the country.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
1,223 posts, read 1,041,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kongfoocj View Post
i agree for the most part, as much as is true. People have been saying that about pittsburgh for years now, and the population is still stagnant at 301,000 and even still declining ever so slightly. By all accounts pittsburgh *should* be turning around and making a bit of a comeback. It's a relatively hip, attractive mid size city. Millennials who love mid size urban cities find pittsburgh attractive for its hills and rivers/bridges, low cost of living, and education, healthcare, and growing tech sectors.

Pittsburgh hasn't even had a dirty reputation for years. It's old days of smoggy skys and polluted rivers is how boomers and maybe gen xers still think of pittsburgh, but millenials don't attach that to present day pittsburgh and certainly not generation z.

Now for a city like cleveland, i don't think that city's really attractive to any young people as a place to raise a family. The scenery's ok, but the city's reputation is almost comical. There are those cleveland song videos on youtube with millions of views; not very good for the city's reputation. Other widely known things associated with cleveland are the river catching fire and the mass balloon pollution the city caused in the 80s. Definitely not known as the most environmentally friendly city in the country.
lol
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:28 PM
 
2,041 posts, read 1,521,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
It may be a bit overhyped, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

When everyone in a city has a negative attitude about where they are, and where things are going...things will spiral out of control. You need some of these positive boosters that "oversell" these notions to change people's minds. If everyone still assumes you're city is on the decline, that's going to stifle potential growth. In order for these old rust belt cities to stop the bleeding (and possibly start to grow again), the perception is going to have to change.

Right now, the perception of Detroit as a dying city is scary. When you look at the cities that are attempting to recover, and you see Detroit in a free fall...you wonder just where the bottom is.

The other cities, while they still may be losing some population, give me the feeling that they already bottomed out as far as hard times go, and are generally rebounding. Let's not forget that places like Philadelphia lost population for 5 decades, but most recently had a small gain.

I hope that all of these cities don't just stop the bleeding, but fully turn around.
I think Detroit's reputation is into a transition phase which may take up to a decade or more to fully change and put it's old reputation in the history books. We have to wait and see how projects like the Cesar's arena, the new Hudson's skyscraper and the Gordie Howe International Bridge will change Detroit. A continued reduction in crime, reestablishment of the auto industry along with the tech industry will turn Detroit around in no time if all goes to plan.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:31 PM
 
4,087 posts, read 3,239,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoNgFooCj View Post
I agree for the most part, as much as is true. People have been saying that about Pittsburgh for years now, and the population is still stagnant at 301,000 and even still declining ever so slightly. By all accounts Pittsburgh *should* be turning around and making a bit of a comeback. It's a relatively hip, attractive mid size city. Millennials who love mid size urban cities find Pittsburgh attractive for its hills and rivers/bridges, low cost of living, and education, healthcare, and growing tech sectors.

Pittsburgh hasn't even had a dirty reputation for years. It's old days of smoggy skys and polluted rivers is how boomers and maybe gen Xers still think of Pittsburgh, but millenials don't attach that to present day Pittsburgh and certainly not generation Z.

Now for a city like Cleveland, I don't think that city's really attractive to any young people as a place to raise a family. The scenery's ok, but the city's reputation is almost comical. There are those Cleveland song videos on YouTube with millions of views; not very good for the city's reputation. Other widely known things associated with Cleveland are the river catching fire and the mass balloon pollution the city caused in the 80s. Definitely not known as the most environmentally friendly city in the country.
But why say under 40-yr olds ..... basically, don't hold Pittsburgh's past against it. Yet push that for Cleveland. Basically, you are saying it is by those who did not live to know that era of the river fire etc.?

Kind of a double standard. Not that I disagree on Pittsburgh. But still..... all those threads that say Cleveland never gets a break. Here for its past. You seem to prove them right.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:38 PM
 
2,041 posts, read 1,521,218 times
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I think Cleveland's rep sucks and honestly I think *that* sucks. Maybe I'm painting a bad picture. Now that I think about it, young people *wouldn't* really know about that stuff. It just seems that Cleveland is one of those cities that's synonymous with "bad", so its bad rep just snowballs

And I guess I'm just giving examples of why *I* would want to live in Pittsburgh if I did, which I don't. Other young people looking for a city may not see it that way. Not trying to lift up Pittsburgh while simultaneously trashing on Cleveland, if that's how it sounded.

Last edited by KoNgFooCj; 10-01-2019 at 06:46 PM..
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