Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In addition, first of all, judging the quality of a downtown area by any specific square mile is ridiculous, but to enlighten you, like you asked to, Minneapolis does have most, if not all of that list, within a waking distance in Downtown, but with a lot more quality compared to Indy of course. Don't forget the Twins, for instance, is part of the MLB unlike the Indians and the Metrodome is going to be replaced by a wonderful brand new stadium in the very same location and unlike Indy, they are anticipating and planning a better plan to cover for operational maintenance of the new stadium (see the new Stadium forum if you care... Minneapolis learned with the mistakes made by Indy administering the Lucas Oil and won't repeat them). Oh well, I should not been comparing Indy to the Twin Cities, my bad, as they are 2-3 levels above IMHO...
"Most" might be correct.
Minny certainly doesn't have a capitol building (because it's not the state capitol).
And what's so ridiculous about picking a square mile that offers the best of the best that a city can offer? No other city packs as much into a square mile as Indy does.
Extend it to 5 square miles, and Indy fails.
Extend it to 10 square miles, and Indy fails even harder.
Extend it to the entire city limits, and you might as well write the city completely off.
I'm not boosting the city. I have plenty of complaints about it, as other posters here could attest to. But I am saying that one little old square mile of Indianapolis offers everything a "city" should offer. But extend those boundaries further out, and Indianapolis quickly slides down the hill.
this is laughable (and embarrassing...for you.). indianapolis <<<<<< saint louis.
So, how far would you have to go to get to:
Restaurants
Shopping
Hotels
Monuments & Memorials
Parks
Museums
College Campus
Convention Center
State Capitol building
Church
Baseball Field
Basketball Stadium
Football Stadium
Union Station (Amtrack/Greyhound)
Concert Venue
Bar/Party Street
River Walk
Symphony Orchestra
In St. Louis?
Are all those things within (that is, less than) 20 minutes walking from each other?
However, I can definitely tell you that I share the same desire with you to move further north. I want to live in a place that has truly brutal winters..or good, depending on how you look at it. Like you, I want a place that stays cold and is consistently covered in snow. Indy, KC, and STL can get cold and be snow-covered for a bit, but it's just not long enough to take for granted. My other reason for wanting to move further north (although Omaha is not a great alternative for that) is I hate the summers here. I can't stand the heat and humidity...Upstate New York, Michigan, or Wisconsin very pleasant in the summer. Anything that doesn't get above the mid-80s and where the heat index is normally well below 90 is what I'd like in a summer. San Diego or San francisco or anywhere on the west coast actually does this better than any place in the Midwest.
Exactly! I have been living in Madison-WI for the last 3 years, 4 years before that in Indy. I love Madison and would keep living here instead of Indy any day for several reasons which are off-topic here, but perhaps one of the things I enjoyed the most here was the winter. There is a whole winter culture set here that Indy residents do not have and probably can never dream of because of the inconsistent, wimpy, snowless winters in central IN. The typical winter here in Madison has a decent snow pack for most of the winter, heck the previous 2 before the last one was snow covered up to early April all the way from early December! So, I learned to ski because of the many decent hills nearby, there is tons of cross country ski trails in the city, and many outdoor public ice rinks which my kids love. Winters can be very fun if you are in the right place but cities in the lower portions of the Midwest lack the option of having a fun winter, they are rather miserable with people complaining about it all the time. I was even excited to learn to ice fish!
Restaurants
Shopping
Hotels
Monuments & Memorials
Parks
Museums
College Campus
Convention Center
State Capitol building
Church
Baseball Field
Basketball Stadium
Football Stadium
Union Station (Amtrack/Greyhound)
Concert Venue
Bar/Party Street
River Walk
Symphony Orchestra
In St. Louis?
Are all those things within (that is, less than) 20 minutes walking from each other?
YES. Dude, have you even been to St. Louis? All of those amenities are in EASY walking distance (sans the state capitol, because obviously St. Louis is not the capital). (BTW, the things you list are basic elements of ANY city, so it's not that special to have it all in walking distance, but rather expected). On top of that, dozens more amenities are accessible via our rail transit system which Indianapolis can only dream of. St. Louis is in another tier completely.
YES. Dude, have you even been to St. Louis? All of those amenities are in EASY walking distance (sans the state capitol, because obviously St. Louis is not the capital). (BTW, the things you list are basic elements of ANY city, so it's not that special to have it all in walking distance, but rather expected). On top of that, dozens more amenities are accessible via our rail transit system which Indianapolis can only dream of. St. Louis is in another tier completely.
I have been to St. Louis, but it has been a while.
But really, all those things can be found within one square mile of St. Louis?
And do people generally expect to be able to walk to a football game, then walk to a bar, then catch a midnight movie without having to use a car?
How about walking from a college class to a park, walk to see a play, catch an outdoor concert, and finish up with a shopping trip?
Hell, even in NYC you have to go to another state to see a football game.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,097,146 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by slengel
as a native easterner, kansas city not at all culturally similar to st. louis. kc is more like omaha; st. louis is like baltimore/phila.
As somebody from Missouri, and as somebody who's traveled back and forth between both of these cities for over 20 years, I can say unequivocally that the two cities are a lot more alike than people want to make out, especially on citydata. They wouldn't both be considered Midwest if they had nothing in common with each other.
Barbeque, blues, jazz, manufacturing, great migration, history, architecture, landscape, etc...the two are more alike than you'd think. They are both Midwestern cities for a reason. If St. Lous is like Baltimore and Philadelphia, then we have to group it in with the Northeast, which makes zero sense. The Midwest is its own region...the cities in this area have more in common with each other than they do other cities outside of that region. What's next..Richmond is more like D.C. than it is like Charlotte?
The differences between STL and KC, especially on this forum, are dramatically overstated. To say there are no similarities is just wrong.
I agree that St. Louis is more eastern in style and KC is more western in style, but the two have many overlapping cultural, linguistic, and demographic similarities. However, they aren't nearly enough alike that I'd call them twins.
Both are considered Midwestern for cultural reasons among others. What's next...Tulsa has nothing at all common in with Memphis or Little Rock? The eastern Great Plains are more or less an extension of the Midwest. That said, STL does have an eastern flavor, while KC has a western one. But there are many overlapping similarities.
Last edited by stlouisan; 05-17-2012 at 06:59 PM..
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,097,146 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by A2DAC1985
What monuments and memorials are in Midtown?
What park is in Midtown?
What convention center is in Midtown?
What baseball, football, and basketball arenas are in Midtown?
What canal/riverwalk is in Midtown?
And Victory Field, Lucas Oil, IUPUI and the Eiteljorg share the same boundary as the square mile of North, East, South, and West Streets. Are they "in" that square mile? No.
But then again, if New York can say it has 3 airports (one of which is in Jersey), and it can say it has 2 football teams (of which both are in Jersey), then I don't think its too much of a stretch to include entertainment/attractions that actually touch the boundaries I'm talking about.
And back on topic, Kansas City, St. Louis, and Omaha can't touch what Indy has, in such a tight area, with a ten foot pole.
I doubt a whole lot of people care about walking distance. St. Louis has a lightrail system to get people who don't have cars places...Indy does not. St. Louis also has a lot to do outside of downtown and midtown, as does KC. I can't speak for Omaha because I haven't been there.
YES. Dude, have you even been to St. Louis? All of those amenities are in EASY walking distance (sans the state capitol, because obviously St. Louis is not the capital). (BTW, the things you list are basic elements of ANY city, so it's not that special to have it all in walking distance, but rather expected). On top of that, dozens more amenities are accessible via our rail transit system which Indianapolis can only dream of. St. Louis is in another tier completely.
Actually, you don't need the rail system for those places unless you're heading all the way out in the burbs towards Clayton to shop at the Galleria. You can easily get to all those things on the list when buildings are better connected giving pedestrians more options to walk inside from building to building when the weather turns for the worst like a rain storm outside that would make the crowds die down. It's all about convenience instead of wasting time freezing my butt off while waiting on Thomas the Train to get to one place when I can simply go to five places all within walking distance in shorter time.
An cultural urban trail way system connecting all neighborhoods like in Europe.
left to right: pedestrian sidewalk/ bike path/ auto traffic. This is much more safer and practical. http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_7981.jpg
I doubt a whole lot of people care about walking distance. St. Louis has a lightrail system to get people who don't have cars places...Indy does not. St. Louis also has a lot to do outside of downtown and midtown, as does KC. I can't speak for Omaha because I haven't been there.
Lou, by no means is this a knock but walkability is one of the "it" factors today everywhere you go with regards to urban planning and it's free. It's evident even on C-D, esp. on C-D. Light rail is a nice tax payer subsidy. The various parts of Indianapolis are self sufficient. South siders do not have to travel to the north side. East siders don't have to travel West and vice versa for both and everyone tends to go downtown. Indianapolis can squarely improve its public transportation system (but seeing as how they downsized it to what it is now due to low ridership, won't be happening anytime soon) but rail isn't what's best for the city. I compare it to curitiba that does not utilize rail but strictly regular bus routes along with BRT with a 85% ridership rate. Definitely cheaper, easier to implement and forces the donut counties to implement their own public transportation and meet up with IndyGo instead of all of them sans one county waiting for Indianapolis to pay for their residents.
It also doesn't make sense for a south sider who works on the north side to ride the bus for 2 hours when they can drive it in 40 minutes. Any side of the city into downtown, perfect if you want some leisure even though your at most 20 minutes since it sits smack in the middle of a square city/county.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
