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I have given Indy credit where credit is due and have always stated that they have done well by placing venues in strategic locations so they feed off one another and create a great compact and walkable convention environment. Indy decided they wanted to be one of the top 2nd tier convention cities and I think they have done that and found a niche there.
But how does that make Indy a better overall city than Kansas City or St Louis which just have more to offer IMO?
The Indy Speedway is great. I have swung through there with my family and toured it. It's an Indy landmark. But the track could be anywhere. It has nothing to do with the city's urban fabric.
The Country Club Plaza however is very much part of the urban fabric of KC and is much more than a mall. It's one of the best examples of an urban, walkable, mixed use neighborhood anywhere in the country.
KCMO might have 15-20k residents downtown, but most of the pics I posted are not even downtown which was my point. Very few were even living downtown 15 years ago so 20k is quite a jump from that. The plaza and midtown have dozens and dozens of high density urban housing developments from row houses to 25 story towers. This is all completely separate from downtown kcmo. KC is much more than the downtown loop. But even the downtown area has so much to offer now vs ten years ago (Sprint Center, P&L District, Performing Arts Center etc).
I like Indy. I just don't think it's quite there with KC yet as far as overall amenities, culture, built environment etc. I think Indy falls short. Just like I think KC falls short of St Louis for the same reasons and Omaha is way outside the circle.
What Indy does have over KC is some nice urban recreation (the canal riverwalks), modern large hotels (KC's big hotels are super dated) and it's closer to other large metros (but central Indiana topography is so mehh vs western Missouri's rolling hills and very wooded/greenery).
I know you hate the pics, but pics show what KC looks like and Indy doesn't look like this. These pics show urban kcmo from downtown to the plaza and you have to admit, that KC is just a more established and more built up city than Indy regarldess of where the stadiums are. And again, I would take a MLB park before any other sport. That's 80 potential days to go to a game and see MLB. The Chiefs are a blast, but they are only in town for 8 days. I don't care if your speedway seats a million people. Give me a MLB team. That's how I like to spend many spring/summer/fall days with my family.
For ME, living in Indianapolis is better compared to STL. KC for ME is to far out in the middle of nowhere. Just like living in the latter locales may be better for YOU. I've said it numerous times, if any one place was the best place in the US it would have a population of 300 million. Since no place has that, then obviously people find other locales more suited to them than others.
Say what you want about CCP, it's a mall. I'm sure the developers weren't thinking of "mixed neighborhood" use in 2012 seeing as how we as a nation went from urban to preferring suburban areas and still do. Most movement is from suburban to suburban, not suburban to urban as urban planners like to make people think. Suburban growth is still higher than urban growth. It's a nice space, used very efficiently but it's a mall. It's a much older Clay Terrace or Metropolis. IMS is a speedway, second in age only to the Milwaukee Mile. The tradition and history of IMS, I feel you tried to sidestep and not being as "important" because it down the street on 16th St and due to size lacks some type of cultural urban fabric. 100 years of racing and tradition. That's the equivalent of downplaying the Kentucky Derby.
Never said I hated ur pictures, it just kind of all run together after a while for me. Granted, outside of downtown, there aren't any apartments right outside the core of Indianapolis as it's all houses. No tax benefit in renting so why bother if you don't have to but that's just my opinion. Even with the housing, even surrounding the urban core, Indianapolis still has more people living in it than KC has living immediately surrounding. Being double the population that's to be expected.
As far as amenities, I've said this to you before. There isn't anything KC has Indianapolis doesn't except KC has more fountains and Indianapolis has more memorials and you've yet to even offer anything KC has that's not available in Indianapolis.
I personally find baseball boring unless I'm looking for a good nap.
I personally find baseball boring unless I'm looking for a good nap.
Right, so you wouldn't miss it . I find auto racing to be about the most boring thing ever. So people like different cities for different reasons, you are correct!
But in KC you have both auto racing and baseball! And don't tell me that the indy track is so much better. nascar is nacar. Indy is Indy. If you need your fill of auto racing, KC has one of the better tracks in the country from what I have been told. I have gone to Indy and nascar races with free tickets and it was neat for the first 15 minutes. and people I know that have gone to the Indy 500 say you can't really even see the race because the track is so big. Cars just come by once in a while. It's just a place you go to say you have been there and take in the atmosphere, but if you want to see a good race, just hit up the local track. 100,000 people do it several times a year in KC.
And while people say baseball is boring. It sure is attended by a lot of fans. Most cities that have MLB have 20,000-40,000 fans come out to the park for every home game and that's a lot of fans over a lot of dates, so obviously there is a pretty huge demand. The KC royals have sucked for a while now, but they still get 20-25k a night and some huge crowds on weekends. Plus KC has a minor league team too that draws about 7k a game. So I think a lot of people enjoy baseball.
And sorry, but the plaza is more than a mall. You have to be kidding me. I guess if you are just talking about the retail portion of the plaza you could say that, but the plaza is a neighborhood or district. It's much more than just the retail shops, but even the retail shops have a very urban feel to them, since most of them date back to the 1930's. If you say you live or work on the plaza, chances are you are blocks from the actual core plaza retail area. have you never been there. Anybody that has any interest in urban planning will tell you that the plaza is unique, it's urban and many have tried to copy it and have failed because it's a neighborhood that has come together over nearly 100 years. Can't duplicate that.
Other things?
Well, KC does have a decent amusement park and two good sized water parks. Indy people have to drive to Cincy or something right? I guess that's fine but those places are always a great place for young teens to hang out and have season passes to and having them right in the metro is nice for both entertainment and employment of young teens.
Indy has NBA. KC has MLS. Pretty much a wash if you ask me. KC's MLS team is very popular right now.
KC has a much larger monument than Indy and it's a national monument. The WWI museum is one of the best reviewed museums you will find anywhere. Check out trip advisor. 259 reviews and five star average.
Actually just check out trip advisor in general. The quality of attractions under KC seem a solid tier above Indy and they get better ratings too.
KC has a much stronger arts scene. Actually KC can compete with cities much larger than KC when it comes to the arts, so it takes Indy pretty easily. The 430 million dollar arts center is just the latest addition to KC's arts scene. While that could be in NYC, LA or Chicago alone.
The Nelson Museum is a world class facility and it has that awesome KC contrasting architecture of 1920's art deco and 2010's contemporary modern.
That's what I like the most about KC vs Indy is just the built environment, the architecture and the general layout and topography of the city. Art deco towers contrasting to the glass skyscrapers. Union Station contrasting to the Sprint Center and Arts Center. The warehouse loft districts contrasting to the new residential areas, the spanish and art deco architecture of the plaza area contrasting to 1970's crown center architecture. KC also has an interesting and powerful history. Back in the 20's and 30's, KC was always mentioned with Chicago and Philly as a city with a major organized crime history and the prohibition era in KC really left a mark on the city. The city just has more flavor IMO. KC also has a stronger political history with Harry S Truman being from the city.
Personally, I think Indy's location is overrated. I roam the entire country. If I'm going to live in flyover country, may a well live in the middle so that Colorado and the west coast is a lot closer too. Just being close to Cincy and Chicago and Louisville doesn't do much for me when I'm just that much further from Denver or Dallas or Seattle. If you want a great location with lots nearby. Try the DC area or the San Fran Bay area. Forget Indianapolis. If you want the ENTIRE country to be accessible (1-3 hour flight and 1/2 day-2 day drive to any place in the US and CA) and still live in a big city with lots to do, you really can't beat Kansas City.
Location: Midwesterner living in California (previously East Coast)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msamhunter
For ME, living in Indianapolis is better compared to STL. KC for ME is to far out in the middle of nowhere. Just like living in the latter locales may be better for YOU. I've said it numerous times, if any one place was the best place in the US it would have a population of 300 million. Since no place has that, then obviously people find other locales more suited to them than others.
Say what you want about CCP, it's a mall. I'm sure the developers weren't thinking of "mixed neighborhood" use in 2012 seeing as how we as a nation went from urban to preferring suburban areas and still do. Most movement is from suburban to suburban, not suburban to urban as urban planners like to make people think. Suburban growth is still higher than urban growth. It's a nice space, used very efficiently but it's a mall. It's a much older Clay Terrace or Metropolis. IMS is a speedway, second in age only to the Milwaukee Mile. The tradition and history of IMS, I feel you tried to sidestep and not being as "important" because it down the street on 16th St and due to size lacks some type of cultural urban fabric. 100 years of racing and tradition. That's the equivalent of downplaying the Kentucky Derby.
Never said I hated ur pictures, it just kind of all run together after a while for me. Granted, outside of downtown, there aren't any apartments right outside the core of Indianapolis as it's all houses. No tax benefit in renting so why bother if you don't have to but that's just my opinion. Even with the housing, even surrounding the urban core, Indianapolis still has more people living in it than KC has living immediately surrounding. Being double the population that's to be expected.
As far as amenities, I've said this to you before. There isn't anything KC has Indianapolis doesn't except KC has more fountains and Indianapolis has more memorials and you've yet to even offer anything KC has that's not available in Indianapolis.
I personally find baseball boring unless I'm looking for a good nap.
Yet again, Indy has no ammenity which KC doesn't have. It's the same vice versa. So that's a wash.
Both city's suburbia are more or less the same in QoL and CoL. Though KC's Overland Park probably has more corporations than Indy's equivalent suburb.
Both cities have solid downtowns that are generally considered to be among the better downtowns nationwide. But side by side, Indy's is better. However, KC has other solid districts/neighborhoods in it's urban core that wipe out Indy's downtown advantage. And NO, those are not considered suburban. They are urban districts. Crossroads, Crown Center, Westport, and Plaza. Indy doens't quite have as many equivalents of that caliber outside of the downtown.
KC boasts the 2nd most fountains in the world after Rome. Indy boasts the largest stadiums in the world. Clearly both cities have their own proud (and legitimate) claim to international fame.
The primary difference that I see with KC is: a stronger cultural identity.The national importance of KC to Jazz Music, BBQ cuisine, and the city's well regarded modern/urban arts scene. THAT, right there is why Kansas City is better than Indianapolis. Sorry, but whatever Indy's response is to those things, just isn't significant enough.
Being a foodie, I'm going to have to go with KC (not because I don't think the others don't have good restaurants - just that KC has the most good ones.. I really miss KC's restaurant scene, actually *sigh*).
I love the other three, though.. have spent lots of time in StL, visited Indianapolis (drove there from Chicago for a concert at Butler University), and lived in Omaha as a kid from 1st through 6th grades.
Can't we all just agree that KC and Indy are basically a wash? I mean really, who wants to go and visit either city for a vacation? They pretty much offer the same amenities except one has MLB and one has NBA. As far as scenery goes, KC is more desirable because they do have some hills, but Indy's location to other destinations is far better, so I'd also call that a wash. To anyone that says Indy's location isn't a really big deal, let me ask you this; How many other large cities can comfortably take a day trip to the 3rd biggest city in our country? Answer, not that many. Indy has a pretty big advantage here.
Can't we all just agree that KC and Indy are basically a wash? I mean really, who wants to go and visit either city for a vacation? They pretty much offer the same amenities except one has MLB and one has NBA. As far as scenery goes, KC is more desirable because they do have some hills, but Indy's location to other destinations is far better, so I'd also call that a wash. To anyone that says Indy's location isn't a really big deal, let me ask you this; How many other large cities can comfortably take a day trip to the 3rd biggest city in our country? Answer, not that many. Indy has a pretty big advantage here.
Indy is also ahead as Msam said before Indy COMPETES with Chicago for business/conventions etc.
So the 12th largest city in the US/23rd metro area competes with the 3rd largest city/metro in the US. thats pretty impressive and its something Kansas city can not pull off
Can't we all just agree that KC and Indy are basically a wash? I mean really, who wants to go and visit either city for a vacation? They pretty much offer the same amenities except one has MLB and one has NBA. As far as scenery goes, KC is more desirable because they do have some hills, but Indy's location to other destinations is far better, so I'd also call that a wash. To anyone that says Indy's location isn't a really big deal, let me ask you this; How many other large cities can comfortably take a day trip to the 3rd biggest city in our country? Answer, not that many. Indy has a pretty big advantage here.
Probably the main difference with this argument has to do with location again. KC is a very big tourism destination for it's region. KC has the best shopping, dinning, sports and arts for the area.
Wichita, Des Moines, Omaha, Lincoln, Topeka and loads of other smaller cities in the plains states gravitate toward KC as the regional hub. Lots of day or weekend trips to KC.
As for Indy there are lots of other options, how many are turning down a trip to Chicago or St. Louis or Cincy or Detroit in favor of Indy? Just too many options all just as close.
When living in KC, I rarely had the urge to "get away" to yet another big city. Proximity to other cities is a non-factor for some of us. Still, it never felt all that isolated to me. Omaha, St. Louis, Des Moines, Wichita, Springfield-Branson were all day trips. Not comparable to larger cities of course, but they were plenty big for just a day trip.
Get-aways, day-trips, vacations... they're all about relaxation and renewal to me. Going to another crowded place with possibly even more people and traffic is anything but relaxing.
Indy is also ahead as Msam said before Indy COMPETES with Chicago for business/conventions etc.
So the 12th largest city in the US/23rd metro area competes with the 3rd largest city/metro in the US. thats pretty impressive and its something Kansas city can not pull off
True. I do think that KC could be a great 2nd tier convention city again (KC used to be a major convention city) if the city would get a couple of new modern convention hotels and figure out some way to connect all the districts in urban kcmo together with high quality transit.
It does look like a convention hotel is getting closer and the streetcar line from downtown to crown center is looking like it's about to happen, so maybe that will help. Lack of transit has really set KC back and that's really stupid because all it needs is a 4 mile starter line linking everything together.
Anyway. Can somebody tell me if Indy has any more major construction projects in the works? I mean major, not five story condo buildings. I'm plan to get out there in the next month or two and completely rebuild my Indy photos (I have been waiting for the convention hotel to be complete and the area around it look nice and mature).
Can't we all just agree that KC and Indy are basically a wash? I mean really, who wants to go and visit either city for a vacation? They pretty much offer the same amenities except one has MLB and one has NBA. As far as scenery goes, KC is more desirable because they do have some hills, but Indy's location to other destinations is far better, so I'd also call that a wash. To anyone that says Indy's location isn't a really big deal, let me ask you this; How many other large cities can comfortably take a day trip to the 3rd biggest city in our country? Answer, not that many. Indy has a pretty big advantage here.
I still think KC is a much bigger destination than Indy. More to do. People from Omaha and Des Moines go to KC for vacation. People drive through Indy to get to Chicago or St Louis for vacation . KC is more of a regional city so it has more regional type attractions. Why go to Indy when you have Chicago, Cincy, St Louis etc?
It's also a very self sustaining city. From casinos to sports. Not a lot of reasons to leave. Might drive down to St Louis just for a change of scenery once in a while, but StL has about the same stuff.
When it comes to what's nearby. I would much rather be 8 hours from both Chicago and the Rocky Mountains than just be close to Chicago. We used to go to Chicago every couple of years while in KC. That's enough. There is so much to see in this country and I always wanted to see it all. That's why KC fit us so well. We traveled the entire country on a regular basis. The DC area has been great for the east coast, but the west coast, colorado, utah etc is almost out of reach. Portland? Seattle? Vancouver? San Diego? And actually places like Miami, Atlanta etc are not that much further of a drive from KC as they are from the DC area.
While in KC we would drive to places like Vancouver, San Diego, Atlanta, Toronto, Houston etc and flying from KC was even more convenient. Not a huge airport but short non stop flights to just about everywhere. Now it's a PITA to go any place west of St Louis. But we still do, we are just forced to fly which is expensive and you miss everything in between.
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. I find auto racing to be about the most boring thing ever. So people like different cities for different reasons, you are correct!
. KC is more of a regional city so it has more regional type attractions. Why go to Indy when you have Chicago, Cincy, St Louis etc?
