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Thanks for the info! I'm also a dual citizen US/CAN and an looking to make a choice between these two cities. Only thing I like about Denver is there are 3 Whole Foods within a 2 miles radius!
You want Whole Foods....here's my insiders tip ....Oakville (best Toronto suburb) ...
specifically SE Oakville....best neighbourhood and has a Whole Foods.
Very treed, near the lake.
The front range is beautiful. So is Lake Ontario. For cultural amenities, Toronto by a huge margin. Basically Toronto is the Canadian version of Chicago wishing it were New York. As a city, Denver is the capital of the US western plains, a poor man's Dallas with better scenery and weather, a much bigger Omaha with views. Toronto in a landslide.
The front range is beautiful. So is Lake Ontario. For cultural amenities, Toronto by a huge margin. Basically Toronto is the Canadian version of Chicago wishing it were New York. As a city, Denver is the capital of the US western plains, a poor man's Dallas with better scenery and weather, a much bigger Omaha with views. Toronto in a landslide.
Denver can't be a poor man's Dallas if it's more desirable. And it's nothing like Omaha. That's like saying Miami and NYC are similar because they touch the same coast.
Denver can't be a poor man's Dallas if it's more desirable. And it's nothing like Omaha. That's like saying Miami and NYC are similar because they touch the same coast.
How is Denver more desirable than DFW if people vote with their feet. DFW has twice the population of the Denver metro? And better museums, restaurants, cultural institutions etc ... Omaha is actually prettier than Denver within city limits. It has bluffs, a pretty great riverfront, more trees, and about the same amount of historic architecture. Denver has proximity to some of the most beautiful scenery in the U.S., but the city itself is flat, brown, terrible traffic, poor air quality. I don't think a few great micro-breweries and a very lame pedestrian mall downtown remotely allow it to compete with Toronto, the alpha city of Canada. Denver can be fairly compared with Calgary or Winnipeg but not Toronto. As a city, Toronto blows Denver away. You really wanna put the University of Denver up against the University of Toronto, the Denver Museum of Art against the AGO and so on. Denver has better Mexican food than Toronto, cheaper housing and proximity to mountains, but for ABSOLUTELY everything else, Toronto is WAY WAY superior.
The front range is beautiful. So is Lake Ontario. For cultural amenities, Toronto by a huge margin. Basically Toronto is the Canadian version of Chicago wishing it were New York. As a city, Denver is the capital of the US western plains, a poor man's Dallas with better scenery and weather, a much bigger Omaha with views. Toronto in a landslide.
No disrespect but I really wish people would stop saying (mostly Americans) that Toronto wishes to be New York. It doesn't wish to be anything. It is usually outsiders who always use this moniker and its annoying to us residents because we don't want to be New York. We don't say we are the 'New York' of Canada - its you guys saying that as a general point of comparison. We don't want to be any city tbh. Naturally however, comparisons will be made and I get it but no, we don't go to bed at night with a 'plan' to become New York lol.
It is true in that in relative economic importance to a nation, Toronto is actually more important to Canada than New York is to the U.S. Otherwise, Torontonians are well aware that even though we live in a big and international city - we aren't New York, both in size, amenities or big city excitement. New York has a metro between 20-23 million depending on how you measure it - Toronto is between 6.0 to 7.5 million depending on how you measure it. Slightly larger if it were to use the CSA standard (which is ridiculous). Torontonians are under no illusion which is the bigger and more vibrant city and we're happy for what we have and the strong growth the metro is achieving. Even though metro Toronto is growing at a faster clip than New York, everyone in this forum will be long gone before Toronto ever has a hope of becoming a larger city/metro than New York. Toronto does compare well with one Borough in NYC though, and that is Queens. If there is one place in the U.S Toronto may be most alike it would be Queens (forget about Chicago other than token similarities like city proper population/density and being Great lake cities). So yeah Toronto most similar to Queens with a really pumped up DT core
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeinatx
You really wanna put the University of Denver up against the University of Toronto, the Denver Museum of Art against the AGO and so on. Denver has better Mexican food than Toronto, cheaper housing and proximity to mountains, but for ABSOLUTELY everything else, Toronto is WAY WAY superior.
So you know our city. I'll forgive the Toronto wishing to be New York comment
Objectively if you make this comparison about amenities, overall attractions, things to do, culture it is very difficult for a city with what a metro of max 3 million to a city/region with a metro at roughly 2-3 times its size. Much in the same way it would be difficult to objectively compare Toronto with New York or with London for that matter without coming to the same conclusion that Toronto would be outmatched. Everyone has a preference however, some people just prefer living in a smaller city but that also fares well for amenities without the headaches of much larger cities and that is perfectly acceptable.
5. .....you chose Denver....for safety....remember Toronto is in Canada...a bit safer
While this is true, some U.S cities (although smaller than Toronto), do compare well to Toronto in terms of safety, homicide rates etc. I believe Portland has a lower homicide rate than Toronto. I know its not a realistic comparison due to major size differences but I just think we should be careful to just assume everything everywhere Canada is safer everything everywhere U.S. I highly doubt for the vast majority of people either living in Denver or Toronto that they are worried about safety.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMI
You want Whole Foods....here's my insiders tip ....Oakville (best Toronto suburb) ...
specifically SE Oakville....best neighbourhood and has a Whole Foods.
Very treed, near the lake.
lol Oakville best Toronto suburb eh - hmmm I dunno.. Its clean and wealthy, i'll give it that! Whole Foods probably doesn't have the same penetration in Metro Toronto than in typical U.S metro. They are here just not as pronounced. The best one I've seen in Canada is in Mississauga by Sq 1.. Its pretty large. All said, rather pricey and I can think of a bunch of local grocers in the Toronto area where you can get comparable goods without comparable ridiculous prices.
How is Denver more desirable than DFW if people vote with their feet. DFW has twice the population of the Denver metro? And better museums, restaurants, cultural institutions etc ... Omaha is actually prettier than Denver within city limits. It has bluffs, a pretty great riverfront, more trees, and about the same amount of historic architecture. Denver has proximity to some of the most beautiful scenery in the U.S., but the city itself is flat, brown, terrible traffic, poor air quality. I don't think a few great micro-breweries and a very lame pedestrian mall downtown remotely allow it to compete with Toronto, the alpha city of Canada. Denver can be fairly compared with Calgary or Winnipeg but not Toronto. As a city, Toronto blows Denver away. You really wanna put the University of Denver up against the University of Toronto, the Denver Museum of Art against the AGO and so on. Denver has better Mexican food than Toronto, cheaper housing and proximity to mountains, but for ABSOLUTELY everything else, Toronto is WAY WAY superior.
I love Dallas, but it's cheap for a reason. Same with all the other Texas cities. A city having a larger population doesn't mean it's more desirable. Dallas clearly isn't more sought after than Seattle, San Diego, Boston, DC, Denver, etc. You get a good deal for your money, that's it. As for Omaha, I think it's a nice area as well. Idk how you can go from calling Denver a bigger Omaha to saying it's a worst version of it. The Denver metro isn't entirely flat, it's an arid climate so of course it'll be brown a lot of the year, traffic isn't great but it could be much worst and the air quality isn't even bad so Idk what you're getting at.
I don't know where I said Denver compares to Toronto. Toronto is the premier city for a country while Denver is only the premier city for it's region. So I agree with you on that. Toronto is superior to a majority of US cities, so that's not a diss.
1) Cost of Living: Denver (Toronto's housing market is so expensive due to Chinese speculation and high household debt. Would not want to live there when the bubble pops)
2) Things to do: Denver...by an inch (both cities underperform, imo, but Denver has a ton of activities within 100 miles drive. Just having the Rockies at your fingertips is a huge recreation boost).
3) Friendliness: Denver (Toronto is famous throughout Canada for it's arrogance and snobbish attitude)
4) Weather: Denver (Toronto's weather is horrible. At least with Denver, you are a 6 hour drive from the heat)
5) Safety: Toronto (Denver, while safe by U.S. standards, is still more dangerous)
6) Walkability: Toronto (Denver never struck me a a walkable city)
2) Things to do: Denver...by an inch (both cities underperform, imo, but Denver has a ton of activities within 100 miles drive. Just having the Rockies at your fingertips is a huge recreation boost).
3) Friendliness: Denver (Toronto is famous throughout Canada for it's arrogance and snobbish attitude)
Number 3 Nah! Its more a reaction to a place they don't necessarily understand more than an actual arrogance or snobbish attitude. If someone keeps saying your snobbish and arrogant all the while being ignorant to who you really are, you'd probably just embellish things until they get to know the real you. If they have no desire to get to know you, is it important what they think - prolly not! I'm not saying this for all Canadians, I think most know family friends in Toronto and don't think that, but of course Toronto being the largest city in a rather sparse country there are going to be misconceptions all around.
As for point 2 and Toronto underperforming on things to do. I don't think that has any basis in fact. Simply not having mountains close by doesn't mean there aren't recreational things to do. Also, Toronto has the normal laundry list of attractions, urban and cultural amenities that a city its size should have. One can say they don't appreciate the things the city has to offer or simply has no interest in the city or its geographic location, which is fair enough, but to accuse it of not having things to do (especially in the urban domain), would make most people scratch their head who actually have a familiarity with the city. I haven't been to Denver other than connecting through its airport (Which is probably my favourite American airport), but I wouldn't be surprised if Toronto had more urban stuff than Denver simply due to its size. I wouldn't dismiss Denver either though so i'll keep this as, I wouldn't be surprised Toronto has more urban pursuits rather than it definitively does.
All said, you've never come into these forums with a friendly attitude at all towards Toronto. So you get what you give in this case.
Last edited by fusion2; 04-01-2017 at 06:08 PM..
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....remember Toronto is in Canada...a bit safer
