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The Second City of Western Washington
vs
The Second City of Eastern Massachusetts.
This comparison was suggested on the Oakland/Providence thread I started a while back. I don’t know much about Tacoma, but I know that Worcester has lost a lot over the last 100 years so I’m pessimistic about its chances in the poll. Looking at old pictures of Notre Dame des Canadiens makes me seriously depressed. On the other hand, Wormtown does have its colleges and the up-and-coming(?) Canal District, so maybe it stands a chance.
I gather that neither city is a huge economic powerhouse, so I’d rather the conversation not revolve around GDP. That doesn’t mean economy can’t be bright up, just do so thoughtfully (like how the median household income and COL of each city/area affects livability). Tacoma seems to win handily for nature and nearby outdoor recreation, so try not to harp a lot on that either. You can harp on it a little.
Other than that, I’ll leave the criteria mostly up to individual discretion. Some potential categories: art/music scene, food, suburbs, neighborhoods, diversity, shopping, and future prospects. Avoid making this Seattle vs Boston at all costs.
BIG props to posters with significant knowledge of and first-hand experience with both cities. I know that the two aren’t huge tourist draws. Also big props to posters who research the other a little before posting about the one they know better.
Worcester is/was in the middle is a renaissance before Covid. But it has had virtually no effect on housing values or median income. Many locals reference the Renaissance with derision and sarcasm. That being said It was filling up with restaurants and a new minor league ball Park. It has a pretty blighted core and they’re trying to fix it up but truthfully it’s really an ugly looking city with horrible weather and isn’t all that walkable due to the hills, somewhat large size and bisecting highways.
Tacoma is also gritty but it’s more dangerous. It’s also a bit more expensive. Far veterans and far fewer foreign born people. Don’t know much about Tacoma.
Hmm..I knew Worcester had some cards stacked against it. It’s interesting to hear that Tacoma is exactly the same: neither better nor worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkSomeWater
Tacoma being close to Seattle > Worcester being close to Boston.
Elaborate. Is it the traffic that makes it harder to access Boston from Worcester than in the west? I know the train from Worcester to Boston is notoriously slow. Don’t know much about transit between the WA cities.
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
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Tacoma is a waterfront city on Puget Sound which gives it a different feel than landlocked Worcester. Tacoma (like Oakland) gets a lot of its grit from being an industrial port city where as Worcester is more of a mill town. I suppose if we were comparing similar sized waterfront cities in New England, perhaps I'd suggest New Haven. I don't know a lot about New Haven's waterfront areas, Tacoma is in a pretty scenic spot on Puget Sound with impressive views of nearby Mt. Rainier. Point Defiance park is exceptionally nice.
Tacoma has a joint military (Army/Air Force) base on its outskirts. Both Worcester and Tacoma are hilly cities, with downtown Tacoma in particular built on a very steep hillside. Tacoma has kind of a whipping boy reputation in relation to Seattle, where as Worcester not quite as much as it relates Boston. Tacoma is in a pretty scenic spot on Puget Sound with a impressive views of nearby Mt. Rainier. As much as Tacoma has a reputation for gritty and shady neighborhoods, it has some really attractive neighborhoods with charming early 20th century craftsman homes as well.
Last edited by Champ le monstre du lac; 05-16-2020 at 06:49 PM..
Tacoma has kind of a whipping boy reputation in relation to Seattle, where as Worcester not quite as much as it relates Boston.
While it’s true that Fitchburg and Lawrence are easier for the Boston upper-crust to “whip”, I think you may be overestimating Boston’s opinion of Worcester.
As for the Tacoma/New Haven comparison, it seems to me that New Haven stands on its own much more than Tacoma? Hence New Haven has more regional clout. Tacoma and Worcester seem similar in their undeniable ties to the larger cities despite one being a port city and the other being a mill city.
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Shudra
While it’s true that Fitchburg and Lawrence are easier for the Boston upper-crust to “whip”, I think you may be overestimating Boston’s opinion of Worcester.
As for the Tacoma/New Haven comparison, it seems to me that New Haven stands on its own much more than Tacoma? Hence New Haven has more regional clout. Tacoma and Worcester seem similar in their undeniable ties to the larger cities despite one being a port city and the other being a mill city.
The only reason to go to Worcester, say back in the 90's was to see a concert at the Centrum. It got a good number of acts that made stops there, but I think Mohegan Sun may have killed that over time. So I wouldn't say a high estimation on Boston's opinion scale, more as perhaps Worcester just isn't much on their radar as much as they can whip on Lynn, Brockton, or Lawrence. idk. Commuting wise they are both long and tedious as I-5 from Tacoma to Seattle is slightly closer in mileage, it's probably more congested than the Mass Pike from Worcester to Boston. I-5 has a pretty contiguous suburban corridor with the airport in between.
New Haven definitely holds more of its own. Was just thinking in the context of medium sized waterfront cities, but its true New Haven is far enough outside of NYC along with the Yale campus to standout. Tacoma has a lot synergy with Seattle. I voted Tacoma in the poll, I prefer its waterfront setting. Worcester is ok, I don't have any knocks against it, just kind of a meh... city.
The only reason to go to Worcester, say back in the 90's was to see a concert at the Centrum. It got a good number of acts that made stops there, but I think Mohegan Sun may have killed that over time. So I wouldn't say a high estimation on Boston's opinion scale, more as perhaps Worcester just isn't much on their radar as much as they can whip on Lynn, Brockton, or Lawrence. idk. Commuting wise they are both long and tedious as I-5 from Tacoma to Seattle is slightly closer in mileage, it's probably more congested than the Mass Pike from Worcester to Boston. I-5 has a pretty contiguous suburban corridor with the airport in between.
New Haven definitely holds more of its own. Was just thinking in the context of medium sized waterfront cities, but its true New Haven is far enough outside of NYC along with the Yale campus to standout. Tacoma has a lot synergy with Seattle. I voted Tacoma in the poll, I prefer its waterfront setting. Worcester is ok, I don't have any knocks against it, just kind of a meh... city.
Worcester really is the most average of cities. Although it does have a decent amount of performance venues.
When you live in a hilly city, you get over the "hills are hard" thing pretty quickly. That said, Downtown Tacoma is VERY steep going west. The top, known as "Hilltop," has always had a crime problem, and the hillside itself has perhaps the region's only Great Lakes style urban prairies.
Tacoma is fascinating to watch. It's improving in so many ways, while continuing to have its challenges.
The pulp mills are gone, so it no longer smells like a feed lot. The Asarco smelter is also gone (and a notable urban redevelopment), so the big cancer-causer (through air pollution iirc) is only remnants. Downtown is much better than in the 70s and 80s, when maybe the majority(?) was an outright slum and/or wasteland.
The biggest change: The new University of Washington Tacoma branch campus. This has taken a whole district of old buildings plus some new ones. It's up to 5,000 students. The campus is fantastic. The only part that's discouraging is that the uphill part will remain urban prairie for many years to come, even while they keep expanding gradually.
The next biggest maybe: Museum district -- The art museum, the state history museum, and glass museum are all around UWT. Or the streetcar, which they call light rail. Or the core waterfront, including the glass museum, some housing, and a promenade.
Meanwhile, fate keeps throwing strikeouts. When Russell Investments got too big, it moved to Seattle. The local law school, same thing. Weyerhaeuser's suburban HQ, same thing. I keep expecting an office boom, but Tacoma keeps losing its anchor companies, and it has a small fraction of the space you might expect.
Tacoma is like Seattle but 60% of the cost (wild guess) and less than half the residential density within city limits at a recent 4,300/sm. It's much more single-family oriented. There's infill and some districts are getting good but there's no critical mass yet.
Its economy is driven by its outsized port, a lot of industry and warehousing, and the military.
There's certainly a cool factor...Tacoma is affordable so artists and wild ideas can still happen, and old buildings remain that would have been torn down elsewhere. Downtown is worth a day or two. And Stadium High School might be the coolest building and stadium of their kind anywhere.
When you live in a hilly city, you get over the "hills are hard" thing pretty quickly. That said, Downtown Tacoma is VERY steep going west.
I was driving up one of those hills once and got to a red light, and it was drizzling, so when it turned green my engine sputtered and I had a hard time getting up the rest of the hill. Honestly don't know what I would've done if the car didn't start moving. Now if I'm in Tacoma I drive north of downtown a bit where the hills are easier before heading west.
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