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Old 09-17-2012, 11:50 AM
 
Location: The City
22,378 posts, read 38,910,924 times
Reputation: 7976

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
Yes, commuter rail is definetly part of all these cities networks, but it isn't used for short trips typically which is the main function of transit in car free living. Subway, light rail, and streetcars are the main rail mode along with bus service to giving people the ability to live car free. If cities want to provide car free living to any area, they must provide a combination of these. Commuter rail is wonderful for long commutes though, but that is mainly reserved for work usually.
Well yes and no, regardless it cant be removed from the discussion. Many areas within the city where RR is the commuter function there are also numerous other forms for shorter trips. Sometimes redundant to other rail forms and sometimes not
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,727 posts, read 15,751,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Well yes and no, regardless it cant be removed from the discussion. Many areas within the city where RR is the commuter function there are also numerous other forms for shorter trips. Sometimes redundant to other rail forms and sometimes not

Would you say someone would take commuter rail one stop to go to a restaurant like they would using the subway, light rail, streetcars, or the bus? I agree for commuter rail that runs on 10 minute headways that could be feasible and maybe some people do that, but most commuter rails don't run on that headway. No one is going to take commuter rail one or two stops with 30 min-1 hr headways. Maybe on a very rare circumstance but remember, we are talking about easy car free living.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,078 posts, read 15,853,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
Don't you think Baltimore has the potential to stay ahead of L.A.? There are some key projects going on in Baltimore and it's already built dense now. Also, Portland is expanding big time as well. What do you think the commuter rates will be in L.A. compared to Baltimore and Portland? Will L.A. be able to pass those two cities in percentages of commuter's taking mass transit? I know L.A. is building a huge network currently.
I changed my list around a little actually and put LA on its own level ahead of Portland / Baltimore.

I mentioned in my post the three huge projects that should be completed by 2020 - Regional Connector (projects 90k additional riders to the Expo/Blue/Gold Lines), Crenshaw / LAX (15k-20k riders), and Phase 1 Purple Line Extension to La Cienega (the full extension is projected to add 290k riders, hard to break that down into phases).

These are all at least partially funded. These are the only expansion projects in Los Angeles that I would consider in this thread as the deadline is 2020. I'm not even sure these projects will be finished by then - the way things work in CA there is probably at least 1 of these that will not be finished on time. But for now I'll pretend they will all meet their expected openings.

Looks like Baltimore has a plan to extend the Green Line. According to Transport Politic it is not funded yet - is it really likely an unfunded project would be finished by 2020? Looks like the Red Line LRT line would be finished by 2020 (projected ridership of 40k - nice, but nothing incredible). Yellow Line extension is unfunded - again probably not gonna make the 2020 threshold.

Portland has one unfunded LRT line in the works - definitely not enough to keep pace with LA.

Just scroll through this and see how much larger the LA section is - 8 LRT projects and 1 HRT project.

Planned Light Rail Systems « The Transport Politic
Planned Metro Rail Systems « The Transport Politic
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:55 AM
 
Location: The City
22,378 posts, read 38,910,924 times
Reputation: 7976
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
Would you say someone would take commuter rail one stop to go to a restaurant like they would using the subway, light rail, streetcars, or the bus? I agree for commuter rail that runs on 10 minute headways that could be feasible and maybe some people do that, but most commuter rails don't run on that headway. No one is going to take commuter rail one or two stops with 30 min-1 hr headways. Maybe on a very rare circumstance but remember, we are talking about easy car free living.

Yes and its one portion Work commute is one of the single most important aspects of car free living
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,727 posts, read 15,751,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Yes and its one portion Work commute is one of the single most important aspects of car free living

A better analysis would be, when people use commuter rail for work commuting, do they live without a car. I don't have any statistics on that, but that would be very interesting. An analysis on how many people taking commuter rail actually live car free. I would think it's very difficult to live car free by choice in most area's only served by commuter rail. Area's that are in the city obviously overlap, but area's away from the city that don't have subway and lightrail overlap would have to be separated. Does anyone have a stat on something like this?
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,727 posts, read 15,751,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
I changed my list around a little actually and put LA on its own level ahead of Portland / Baltimore.

I mentioned in my post the three huge projects that should be completed by 2020 - Regional Connector (projects 90k additional riders to the Expo/Blue/Gold Lines), Crenshaw / LAX (15k-20k riders), and Phase 1 Purple Line Extension to La Cienega (the full extension is projected to add 290k riders, hard to break that down into phases).

These are all at least partially funded. These are the only expansion projects in Los Angeles that I would consider in this thread as the deadline is 2020. I'm not even sure these projects will be finished by then - the way things work in CA there is probably at least 1 of these that will not be finished on time. But for now I'll pretend they will all meet their expected openings.

Looks like Baltimore has a plan to extend the Green Line. According to Transport Politic it is not funded yet - is it really likely an unfunded project would be finished by 2020? Looks like the Red Line LRT line would be finished by 2020 (projected ridership of 40k - nice, but nothing incredible). Yellow Line extension is unfunded - again probably not gonna make the 2020 threshold.

Portland has one unfunded LRT line in the works - definitely not enough to keep pace with LA.

Just scroll through this and see how much larger the LA section is - 8 LRT projects and 1 HRT project.

Planned Light Rail Systems « The Transport Politic
Planned Metro Rail Systems « The Transport Politic

L.A.'s network is very impressive; I wonder how many people will chose to live car free when all this is done. A city like L.A. should count their rail transit ridership in the millions and not the thousands. There is no reason L.A. couldn't have the second highest rail ridership in the nation with a big enough network. I think it would take double this though to acheive that. L.A. is changing though, no doubt about it.
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:06 PM
 
Location: The City
22,378 posts, read 38,910,924 times
Reputation: 7976
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
A better analysis would be, when people use commuter rail for work commuting, do they live without a car. I don't have any statistics on that, but that would be very interesting. An analysis on how many people taking commuter rail actually live car free. I would think it's very difficult to live car free by choice in most area's only served by commuter rail. Area's that are in the city obviously overlap, but area's away from the city that don't have subway and lightrail overlap would have to be separated. Does anyone have a stat on something like this?

Not sure, the RR areas I am discussing though are mostly within the city limits where they are layered among multiple other forms of transit. Also lines like the Norristown line carry many folks to and from the city for a night out in center city to places like Manyunk or Conshy

I dont think they are optimal but are functional. I dont think there is a stat but commute type though
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,727 posts, read 15,751,203 times
Reputation: 4081
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Not sure, the RR areas I am discussing though are mostly within the city limits where they are layered among multiple other forms of transit. Also lines like the Norristown line carry many folks to and from the city for a night out in center city to places like Manyunk or Conshy

I dont think they are optimal but are functional. I dont think there is a stat but commute type though

I agree on commuter rail in the city, however most ridership on commuter rail in cities around the nation including Philly comes from area's outside the city. Those area's obviously have very low car free percentages so you would have to go station by station on your statistics which would take too much time. It's better to just leave it out altogether because of this. Commuter rail isn't really a big TOD driver in a car free living sense because of the headways. If it runs like a subway, then it could work.
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,078 posts, read 15,853,364 times
Reputation: 4049
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
L.A.'s network is very impressive; I wonder how many people will chose to live car free when all this is done. A city like L.A. should count their rail transit ridership in the millions and not the thousands. There is no reason L.A. couldn't have the second highest rail ridership in the nation with a big enough network. I think it would take double this though to acheive that. L.A. is changing though, no doubt about it.
Car-free? Well it is Los Angeles - I'm sure the rates won't be very high when compared to older cities in which car-free or car-light living has been the norm for decades. What you will see though is a decline in the average # of cars per household as families start to find they only need 1 car instead 2 or 3.

One issue with Los Angeles is there are some places it is extremely difficult to build lines. Places like Silverlake and Echo Park are extremely hilly neighborhoods - making it difficult for surface LRT and don't have the densities (~14k ppsm) to warrant a subway. Another issue is that the city is very built-up and there isn't a lot of room for surface LRT (which is why you see them re-using old PE right-of-ways).
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:34 PM
 
Location: where u wish u lived
896 posts, read 1,169,928 times
Reputation: 254
Why isn't this thread titled "how can I boost DC for the 100th time by MDallstar"
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