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This is ridiculous. Some of the highest income suburbs in the US are in Chicagoland, Houstonland, Dallasland. Not to the extent of NYC or SF Bay Area but no where aside from LA can touch those two. Miami, Chicago, DC, Dallas, Houston, Seattle, and Boston are the next tier down from the big 3 wealth machines.
If desirability is matched with income, which IMO is the best gauge to desirability because lets not fool ourselves here imbeciles with zero education don't know what a 6 figure salary looks like. TBH not only do the 3 metros have high salary suburbs but suburbs of high price real estate. Winnetka, Kenilworth, Bannockburn, Glencoe, Lake Forest, South Barrington- Chicago. Hilshire, Bunker Hill, Piney Point, Hunters Creek- Houston. Westover Hills, Highland Park, Westlake- Dallas.
Desirability sav858 can be found in pockets anywhere but the most desirable places are where those earning 6 figure and above live. To question the desirability of any large high income region blindly can only be done by a worthless (envious) peasant. Not talking about you btw.
Well, obviously there are beautiful and exceptional suburbs everywhere, but the $200,000+ Average Income threshold is not really as common as one might think. Here is a thread that I created back in January and only 6 CSAs have 10+ suburbs with an average family income of $200,000 or greater: https://www.city-data.com/forum/gener...me-2010-a.html
NY is number 1 far and away followed by the Bay Area, Chicagoland, DC and LA.
Generally the most elite places when it comes to price are usually on the coast concentrated in NY, California and Florida.
Forbes - Most expensive zip codes 2012 and Median Home Price
1. New York, NY 10065 - 6,534,430 New York
2. Alpine, NJ 07620 5,745,038 New York
3. Atherton, CA 94027 4,897,864 San Francisco
4. Sagaponack, NY 11962 4,180,385 New York
5. Hillsborough, CA 94010 4,127,250 San Francisco
6. New York, NY 10014 4,116,506 New York
7. Los Altos Hills, CA 94022 4,016,050 San Francisco
8. New York, NY 10021 3,988,529 New York
9. Rolling Hills, CA 90274 3,980,829 Los Angeles
10. New York, NY 10075 2,885,409 New York
11. Belvedere, CA 94920 3,852,304 San Francisco
12. Beverly Hills, CA 2,561,703 Los Angeles
13. Aspen, CO 81611 3,597,756---
14. New York, NY 10013 3,561,703 New York
15. Coral Gables, FL 33156 3,483,628 Miami
16. Water Mill, NY 11976 3,317,227 New York
17. Greenwich, CT 06831 3,311,377 New York
18. Rancho Santa Fe, CA 92067 3,274,286 San Diego
19. Montecitio, CA 93108 3,236,765 Santa Barbara
20. New York, NY 10023 3,157,231 New York
21. Portola Valley, CA 94028 3,129,091 San Francisco
22. Woodside, CA 94062 3,074,909 San Francisco
23. Los Angeles, CA 90077 3,052,154 Los Angeles
24. New York, NY 10012 3,049,419 New York
25. Newport Coast, CA 92657 2,984,844 Los Angeles
26. Rancho Santa Fe, CA 92091 2955656 San Francisco
27. Snowmass, CO 81654 2,934,739 -----
28. New York, NY 10011 2,918,052 New York
29. Mill Neck, NY 11765 2,880,577 New York
30. New York, NY 10003 2,790,959 New York
Well, obviously there are beautiful and exceptional suburbs everywhere, but the $200,000+ Average Income threshold is not really as common as one might think. Here is a thread that I created back in January and only 6 CSAs have 10+ suburbs with an average family income of $200,000 or greater: https://www.city-data.com/forum/gener...me-2010-a.html
NY is number 1 far and away followed by the Bay Area, Chicagoland, DC and LA.
I always enjoy your threads Mont and I think you bring a lot to this forum, truly. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. I was just trying to make arguments for places outside of California because some of these folks think we're just all obsessed with ourselves not that it matters but sometimes I like to make arguments for the underdogs.
TBH while great suburbs exist everywhere the amount, the local industries, and the folks with the wealth varies drastically. As I mentioned I don't expect anywhere to be able to compete with NYC, SF Bay Area, or LA but I don't think anyone should be writing Chicago off as anything but desirable. The city afterall still has the 3rd largest sum of UHNWI's and these are folks that can choose to live anywhere in the world but over 2K of them want to call their home Chicago or one of the elegant suburbs of Chicagoland. Same rule applies to Houston and Dallas. I'm not familiar with Atlanta or its suburbs, industries, etc to defend it properly.
Quote:
Places with an Average Family Income of $500,000+ and the Metro region they are located in: 1 Crows Nest, IN $694,378 Indianapolis 2 Fisher Island, FL $690,319 Miami 3 Hunting Valley, OH $574,294 Cleveland 4 Diablo, CA $556,663 San Francisco 5 Indian Creek, FL $532,700 Miami 6 Westlake, TX $532,045 Dallas 7 Glenbrook, NV $504,900 Sacramento 8 Lake Aluma, OK $503,894 Oklahoma City
Metro Regions and the number of places with an Average Family Income of $200,000+ annually.
New York: 112
Centre Island, NY $485,295
Sands Point, NY $431,642
Mill Neck, NY $412,736
Old Field, NY $411,787
Brookville, NY $400,525
Plandome, NY $398,831
Oyster Bay Cove, NY $395,315
Hewlett Bay Park, NY $386,754
Scarsdale, NY $386,525
Cove Neck, NY $384,606
Bronxville, NY $383,858
Matinecock, NY $370,190
Old Greenwich, CT $368,538
Muttontown, NY $366,205
Munsey Park, NY $363,133
Short Hills, NJ $356,024
Old Westbury, NY $354,552
Plandome Manor, NY $353,100
Lloyd Harbor, NY $348,006
Alpine, NJ $334,534
Darien, CT $332,237
Tuxedo Park, NY $329,755
Larchmont, NY $327,306
Hewlett Neck, NY $327,093
Laurel Hollow, NY $326,518
Rye, NY $320,844
Roslyn Harbor, NY $320,423
Oak Beach-Captree, NY $315,911
Scotts Corners, NY $313,303
Far Hills, NJ $312,956
Hewlett Harbor, NY $311,464
Mantoloking, NJ $310,847
Essex Falls, NJ $310,426
Bedford, NY $310,053
Woodsborough, NY $299,987
Upper Brookville, NY $299,856
East Hills, NY $296,818
Westport, CT $295,011
Saddle River, NJ $293,518
Kensington, NY $293,018
Roslyn Estates, NY $291,249
Southport, CT $285,521
Asharoken, NY $284,949
Southampton, NY $283,265
Briarcliff Manor, NY $281,428
Huntington Bay, NY $281,054
Armonk, NY $280,913
Pelham Manor, NY $279,977
Lake Success, NY $278,641
Water Mill, NY $276,544
Flower Hill, NY $272,695
Plandome Heights, NY $271,765
Greenville, NY $271,522
Riverside, CT $270,946
Old Brookville, NY $266,773
Mountain Lakes, NJ $264,733
Kings Point, NY $263,629
Rumson, NJ $260,038
North Hills, NY $255,835
Pine Hill, NY $255,031
Grand View-on-Hudson, NY $252,932
Upper Saddle River, NJ $251,536
Harbor Hills, NY $250,710
Franklin Lakes, NJ $249,429
Nissequogue, NY $248,579
Great Neck Estates, NY $248,445
Rye Brook, NY $246,175
Irvington, NY $244,318
Rockleigh, NJ $244,217
Harrison, NY $242,589
North Haven, NY $241,964
Golden's Bridge, NY $240,442
Upper Montclair, NJ $239,296
Belle Terre, NY $235,738
Summit, NJ $235,662
Poquott, NY $233,983
Cos Cob, CT $231,443
Malverne Park Oaks, NY $231,406
Ridgecrest, NJ $231,008
Greenwich, CT $228,379
Spring Borough, NJ $227,541
North Caldwell, NJ $227,394
Point Lookout, NY $226,955
Mendham, NJ $225,719
Head on Harbor, NY $223,946
Bernardsville, NJ $223,074
Garden City, NY $223,052
Demarest, NJ $220,594
Woodbury, NY $220,384
Northwest Harbor, NY $219,565
Eatons Neck, NY $218,684
Great Neck. NY $217,762
Chatham, NJ $217,172
Westfield, NJ $216,390
Sea Bright, NJ $216,304
Cannondale, CT $215,993
Montebello, NY $213,660
Glen Rock, NJ $212,299
Pelham, NY $211,610
Bay Head, NJ $211,284
Saddle Rock, NY $210,732
Woodcliff Lake, NJ $209,783
Hastings-on-Hudson, NY $205,654
East Williston, NY $206,647
Great River, NY $205,579
Allendale, NJ $205,447
Atlantic Beach, NY $204,694
Wilton Center, CT $204,387
Baxter Estates, NY $204,162
Old Tappan, NJ $203,133
Tenafly, NJ $202,548
Cold Spring Harbor, NY $201,693
San Francisco: 39
Diablo, CA $556,663
Atherton, CA $391,633
Portola Valley, CA $369,825
Los Altos Hills, CA $353,977
Woodside, CA $351,533
Hillsborough, CA $347,658
Tiburon, CA $311,451
Belvedere, CA $307,555
Ross, CA $306,164
Sereno del Mar, CA $298,816
Pasatiempo, CA $270,080
Kenwood, CA $270,675
Rutherford, CA $265,298
Shell Ridge, CA $254,066
Kentfield, CA $261,712
Ladera, CA $259,509
West Menlo Park, CA $257,403
Loyola, CA $256,619
Piedmont, CA $248,737
Norris Canyon, CA $248,015
Monte Sereno, CA $245,776
Blackhawk, CA $241,646
Orinda, CA $240,131
Saratoga, CA $229,610
Los Altos, CA $227,861
Silverado Resort, CA $227,766
Sleepy Hollow, CA $225,490
Alamo, CA $220,862
Dillon Beach, CA $222,210
Emerald Lake Hills, CA $219,300
Stanford, CA $216,541
Lafayette, CA $209,874
Palo Alto, CA $208,153
Mill Valley, CA $207,794
Menlo Park, CA $206,670
Castle Hill, CA $203,432
Acalanes Ridge, CA $203,178
Los Gatos, CA $202,375
Reliez Valley, CA $201,391
Chicago: 25
Winnetka, IL $363,776
Kenilworth, IL $360,649
Bannockburn, IL $351,464
Glencoe, IL $335,542
Dune Acres, IN $330,160
Lake Forest, IL $309,825
Hinsdale, IL $280,695
Burr Ridge, IL $277,320
Barrington Hills, IL $260,232
Northfield, IL $255,512
North Barrington, IL $254,014
Oak Brook, IL $249,167
South Barrington, IL $248,794
Wilmette, IL $229,826
Green oaks, IL $225,089
River Forest, IL $225,045
Wayne, IL $223,830
Kildeer, IL $220,911
Long Grove, IL $217,685
Riverwoods, IL $216,841
Golf, IL $214,528
Clarendon HIlls, IL $209,717
Lake Bluff, IL $209,296
Lake Barrington, IL $205,709
Inverness, IL $202,200
Washington DC: 24
Chevy Chase Village, MD $490,928
Somerset, MD $344,324
Brookmont, MD $314,016
Chevy Chase Section Three, MD $311,861
Chevy Chase, MD $310,196
Chevy Chase Section Five, MD $305,118
Travilah, MD $293,799
McLean, VA $276,249
Chevy Chase(Census Place), MD $262,375
Martin's Addition, MD $298,470
Great Falls, VA $281,855
Potomac, MD $270,499
Bethesda, MD $251,880
Chevy Chase View, MD $246,177
Glen Echo, MD $237,093
Wolf Trap, VA $228,559
Cabin John, MD $222,171
Belle Haven, VA $215,802
Darnestown, MD $209,978
North Chevy Chase, MD $208,318
Crosspointe, VA $206,423
Woodmore, MD $203,905
Floris, VA $203,368
Mantua, VA $203,160
Los Angeles: 16
Hidden Hills, CA $392,679
Rolling Hills, CA $376,925
Lake Sherwood, CA $298,863
Malibu, CA $276,007
Palos Verdes Estates, CA $271,908
Indian Wells, CA $265,461
Manhattan Beach, CA $255,853
San Marino, CA $246,465
Newport Beach, CA $241,005
Bell Canyon, CA $239,203
La Canada Flintridge, CA $237,475
Laguna Beach, CA $227,969
Rolling Hills Estates, CA $223,879
Bradbury, CA $216,316
Coto de Caza, CA $215,556
Santa Rosa valley, CA $200,223
Minneapolis: 11
Woodland, MN $321,539
Sunfish Lake, MN $303,539
Medina, MN $275,580
Minnetonka Beach, MN $266,738
Greenwood, MN $264,796
Dellwood, MN $228,798
Orono, MN $223,439
Deephaven, MN $221,481
Tonka Bay, MN $218,414
North Oaks, MN $215,440
Medicine Lake, MN $208,704
Miami: 9
Fisher Island, FL $690,319
Indian Creek, FL $532,700
Golf, FL $403,755
Gulf Stream, FL $369,778
Palm Beach, FL $317,516
Manalapan, FL $305,224
Golden Beach, FL $244,513
Sea Ranch Lakes, FL $225,986
Key Biscayne, FL $221,298
Boston: 8
Dover, MA $282,943
Wellesley, MA $257,870
Duxbury, MA $244,398
Boxford, MA $237,065
South Duxbury, MA $231,258
Weekpaug, RI $216,942
Winchester, MA $213,552
Brookline, MA $206,826
Houston: 8
Hunters Creek Village, TX $398,874
Piney Point Village, TX $373,831
Bunker Hill Village, TX $354,238
Hilshire Village, TX $313,198
West University Place, TX $294,912
Southside Place, TX $260,160
Bellaire, TX $241,509
Spring Valley Village, TX $201,620
Denver: 7
Cherry Hills Village, CO $361,057
Castle Pines, CO $312,337
Pine Brook Hill, CO $265,657
Valmont, CO $258,050
Greenwood Village, CO $241,655
Paragon Estates, CO $222,699
Bow Mar, CO $216,151
Detroit: 7
Barton Hills, MI $398,981
Lake Angelus, MI $352,431
Village of Grosse Pointe Shores, MI $254,170
Bloomfield Hills, MI $247,865
Franklin, MI $238,523
Orchard Lake Village, MI $210,914
Bingham Farms, MI $218,726
St Louis: 7
Huntleigh, MO $400,573
Country Life Acres, MO $319,307
Town & Country, MO $282,685
Ladue, MO $271,196
Westwood, MO $260,224
Clarkson, MO $252,305
Frontenac, MO $250,483
Cleveland: 6
Hunting Valley, OH $574,294
Bentleyville, OH $303,845
Moreland Hills, OH $244,524
Gates Mills, OH $232,024
Waite Hill, OH $224,064
Pepper Pike, OH $218,630
Dallas: 6
Westlake, TX $532,045
Westover Hills, TX $424,345
Highland Park, TX $374,208
University Park, TX $273,583
Southlake, TX $228,840
Colleyville, TX $202,607
Seattle: 6
Hunts Point, WA $421,503
Medina, WA $332,002
Clyde Hill, WA $313,023
Yarrow Point, WA $269,700
Woodway, WA $237,003
Mercer Island, WA $223,343
Milwaukee: 5
Chenequa, WI $359,735
River Hills, WI $302,311
Oconomowoc Lake, WI $267,606
Lac La Belle, WI $248,080
Wind Point, WI $230,209
San Antonio: 5
Olmos Park, TX $273,864
Shavano Park, TX $269,209
Terrell Hills, TX $254,772
Hill Country Village, TX $222,000
Alamo Heights, TX $200,336
Cincinnati: 4
The Village of Indian Hill, OH $366,623
Coldstream, OH $351,842
Concorde Hills, OH $285,281
Rabbit Hash, KY $238,319
Indianapolis: 4
Crows Nest, IN $694,378
Williams Creek, IN $247,080
North Crows Nest, IN $233,250
Meridian Hills, IN $225,383
Pittsburgh: 4
Sewickley Heights, PA $334,457
Fox Chapel, PA $279,114
Edgeworth, PA $238,143
Bradford Woods, PA $204,248
Kansas City: 3
Mission Hills, KS $340,849
Mission Woods, KS $301,272
Loch Lloyd, MO $231,141
Nashville: 3
Belle Meade, TN $404,399
Oak Hill, TN $244,417
Forest Hills, TN $235,063
Oklahoma City: 3
Lake Aluma, OK $503,894
Cimarron, OK $334,949
Nichols Hills, OK $307,963
Austin: 2
Barton Creek, TX $315,603
West Lake Hills, TX $236,892
Birmingham: 2
Mountain Brook, AL $242,948
Shoal Creek, AL $225,797
Philadelphia: 2
Greenville, DE $335,297
Woodside, PA $200,787
Atlanta: 1
Druid Hills, GA $212,759
Charlotte: 1
Marvin, NC $203,717
Columbus: 1
New Albany, OH $252,702
Phoenix: 1
Paradise Valley, AZ $255,416
Sacramento: 1
Glenbrook, NV $504,900
Salt Lake City: 1
Emigration Canyon, UT $207,664
San Diego: 1
Rancho Santa Fe, CA $391,197
Tampa: 1
Belleair Shore, FL $233,105
My point to sav is that different markets are built differently. For one, Chicago isn't even a sellers markets like NYC, SF Bay Area, or LA. The pent up demand in these 3 markets outweigh the supply so our real estate prices stay high, there's not enough supply and the lack of supply has pent up demand and operating costs for building permits to keep the supply down and the prices up. Dallas, Miami, Chicago, and Atlanta are all buyers markets with more than 6 months of housing supply and supply outweighs the demand tremendously, so their real estate prices remain lower. Houston is a sellers market with a surging real estate housing price, it's not going to be staying cheap with these others for long because of the way its housing market is operating.
TBH, looking at en masse real estate prices are misleading really. For example is Denver really more desirable than Chicago? Seattle as desirable as LA? Milwaukee more desirable than Chicago? DC more desirable than LA? IMO I don't think so. I look at the amount of affluent households by metro, amount of desirable suburbs (as you correctly posted), amount of desirable high income zip codes, and I look at all of those together and it's the same results. NYC, SF Bay Area, and LA. Then a weird tier with just Miami by itself. Then next tier DC, Seattle, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, and Boston. Then it's every body else.
I always enjoy your threads Mont and I think you bring a lot to this forum, truly. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. I was just trying to make arguments for places outside of California because some of these folks think we're just all obsessed with ourselves not that it matters but sometimes I like to make arguments for the underdogs.
TBH while great suburbs exist everywhere the amount, the local industries, and the folks with the wealth varies drastically. As I mentioned I don't expect anywhere to be able to compete with NYC, SF Bay Area, or LA but I don't think anyone should be writing Chicago off as anything but desirable. The city afterall still has the 3rd largest sum of UHNWI's and these are folks that can choose to live anywhere in the world but over 2K of them want to call their home Chicago or one of the elegant suburbs of Chicagoland. Same rule applies to Houston and Dallas. I'm not familiar with Atlanta or its suburbs, industries, etc to defend it properly.
My point to sav is that different markets are built differently. For one, Chicago isn't even a sellers markets like NYC, SF Bay Area, or LA. The pent up demand in these 3 markets outweigh the supply so our real estate prices stay high, there's not enough supply and the lack of supply has pent up demand and operating costs for building permits to keep the supply down and the prices up. Dallas, Miami, Chicago, and Atlanta are all buyers markets with more than 6 months of housing supply and supply outweighs the demand tremendously, so their real estate prices remain lower. Houston is a sellers market with a surging real estate housing price, it's not going to be staying cheap with these others for long because of the way its housing market is operating.
TBH, looking at en masse real estate prices are misleading really. For example is Denver really more desirable than Chicago? Seattle as desirable as LA? Milwaukee more desirable than Chicago? DC more desirable than LA? IMO I don't think so. I look at the amount of affluent households by metro, amount of desirable suburbs (as you correctly posted), amount of desirable high income zip codes, and I look at all of those together and it's the same results. NYC, SF Bay Area, and LA. Then a weird tier with just Miami by itself. Then next tier DC, Seattle, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, and Boston. Then it's every body else.
I take these "rankings" with a grain of salt, and for this reason I'm about to explain. Take Historic Brookhaven for example. There is not a house in that neighborhood for less than a million dollars. Then there's the larger Brookhaven which has nearly 50,000 people and a mixed income profile to reflect a city of that size. Historic Brookhaven might have 400 people and they're all clustered around each other in a well defined neighborhood so its easy for them to have a insanely high median household income, which is somewhere close to $250k. I mean, it has 400 people. How could it not be that affluent vs the larger City of Brookhaven which has a median household of around $65k
When I'm looking at wealthy areas, I'm looking at the area as a whole. People can make these rankings based off cities with 100 people, Like Vernonburg, Georgia (for example) and then say "ohh they're so wealthy" in Vernonburg, but yeah um... it's only 45 houses there. Truly wealthy areas are like Upper East Side Manhattan, The Platinum Triangle, Buckhead, The North Shore, The Park Cities, and Palm Beach. These are BIG places with BIG populations, and they have enough buying power to crush these itty bitty so called "high income places" with 5 streets and 200 people.
But you lost it all when you left "the life" and ratted out on your friends in the Lucchese Family, now didn't ya Henry. Now you're on the run and hiding out in some Midwestern suburb where you order spaghetti with marinara sauce and get egg noodles with ketchup.
Serves you right, you rat bastard...
Interesting that "Henry Hill" posted this 4 months after his death.
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Deezus, Henry Hill
