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Old 10-19-2012, 10:49 PM
 
1,119 posts, read 2,744,329 times
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I think the internet dudes are going to file a petition to dispute that for sure

Well, the behavior and knowledge exhibited by some of the LA boosters reminded me of this quote "When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail."

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAXTOR View Post
But downtown1, why isn't Shanghai above Hong Kong or Singapore? It's more than twice the size and has the larger GDP. It's also the "cultural exporter" of China, the largest most populated country in the world. LOL
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, CA
2,342 posts, read 3,993,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAXTOR View Post
I still haven't heard an argument about what puts LA "significantly" on top besides GDP. I'm not being dismissive either, I already stated I feel LA is more important despite the rankings but I see them as the same tier. Nothing short of that.
It's always either you or Fitzrovian that constantly try to spread this belief that Chicago is still the second city of the US. Sometimes its both of you together.

Why? What do you get out of it? What do you accomplish by defending a city neither of you have lived in or likely care about? Why try to knock LA with these arguments for why Chicago is more urban, important, etc?

Really, I would like to know.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
9,828 posts, read 9,425,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAXTOR View Post
Aren't most Apple employees in China? Isn't that where most of Apple's gadget inventory is being built? So I guess by that logic the bay area loses significance.

What NYC has to do with this point Chandler, is fairly simple. NYC, not LA, is rightfully the "cultural exporter" and "importer" for that matter between the US and the rest of the world. Your guys in Hollywood, they're working for NYC's corporate revenues. Theorhetically you can call Hollywood the worlds largest white collar "manufacturer". The Film Industry's 47% of total revenues go to NYC, 18% stay in LA.

I still haven't heard an argument about what puts LA "significantly" on top besides GDP. I'm not being dismissive either, I already stated I feel LA is more important despite the rankings but I see them as the same tier. Nothing short of that.
Poor analogy. The Silicon Valley is where the creative nuts and bolts process takes place, not China. Likewise, the creative process of most films takes places in Southern California, not NYC.
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:03 PM
 
Location: London, U.K.
886 posts, read 1,565,211 times
Reputation: 828
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives View Post
Nice link you're quoting. It has DC and Boston ranked above L.A., with much smaller economies. Cities in the same country, mind you. They must have more accounting office water coolers per capita or something. How adorable.

Singapore doesn't even appear on half those lists. Its a one-trick poney. It's all finance and...more finance. It's the Chicago of Asian cities.
You never answered my question. So why is it that besides the GDP, Shanghai never beats Singapore even once in the lists?

Why is it that Shanghai has double the population, larger GDP, and the cultural "exporter" of China never once beat Hong Kong or Singapore.

Also it would be an honor comparing any city to the likes of Singapore and Hong Kong, two cities that punch well above their weight class on the global portfolio.

I'll let valentro take over this conversation (about Singapore) because he knows more about his hometown Singapore and his former home Chicago than I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives View Post
Poor analogy. The Silicon Valley is where the creative nuts and bolts process takes place, not China. Likewise, the creative process of most films takes places in Southern California, not NYC.
You've never thought about it Chandler? Hollywood is obsessed with NYC, it's natural to use LA as a backdrop it's where most of the studios are but where does the NYC obsession stem from? That's right, the budgets, checks, revenues, companies, executives all lead to NYC. Not to mention its been just as popular as LA in the film industry lately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrantiX View Post
It's always either you or Fitzrovian that constantly try to spread this belief that Chicago is still the second city of the US. Sometimes its both of you together.

Why? What do you get out of it? What do you accomplish by defending a city neither of you have lived in or likely care about? Why try to knock LA with these arguments for why Chicago is more urban, important, etc?

Really, I would like to know.
I get nothing out of it. I don't have an agenda. I can give LA the kudos it deserves for everything besides its transit, urban qualities, and being "significantly" ahead of Chicago. I don't see it a tier ahead and apparently with the lack of supporting evidence that doesnt correlate to GDP, others don't either.

LA is a good city. I'll leave it there.
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:04 PM
 
289 posts, read 396,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAXTOR View Post
Aren't most Apple employees in China? Isn't that where most of Apple's gadget inventory is being built? So I guess by that logic the bay area loses significance.

What NYC has to do with this point Chandler, is fairly simple. NYC, not LA, is rightfully the "cultural exporter" and "importer" for that matter between the US and the rest of the world. Your guys in Hollywood, they're working for NYC's corporate revenues. Theorhetically you can call Hollywood the worlds largest white collar "manufacturer". The Film Industry's 47% of total revenues go to NYC, 18% stay in LA.

I still haven't heard an argument about what puts LA "significantly" on top besides GDP. I'm not being dismissive either, I already stated I feel LA is more important despite the rankings but I see them as the same tier. Nothing short of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrantiX View Post
It's always either you or Fitzrovian that constantly try to spread this belief that Chicago is still the second city of the US. Sometimes its both of you together.

Why? What do you get out of it? What do you accomplish by defending a city neither of you have lived in or likely care about? Why try to knock LA with these arguments for why Chicago is more urban, important, etc?

Really, I would like to know.
Did I miss something or did the person you quoted not even mention Chicago anywhere in their post?
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:11 PM
 
289 posts, read 396,725 times
Reputation: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives View Post
Poor analogy. The Silicon Valley is where the creative nuts and bolts process takes place, not China.
I'd argue that nowhere has a claim to the creative nuts and bolts. Creativity comes from everywhere, especially in STEM fields.

The valley, and other areas, are just one of the regions where people go to get financing while China is where they go if they are trying to manufacture hardware or physical goods cheaply.

Edited to add:

Aside from being the home to many international pornographic sites, Montreal was where the first internet search engine was invented by researchers at McGill and Concordia. merci pour la créativité qui a été volé Montréal!
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:19 PM
 
Location: London, U.K.
886 posts, read 1,565,211 times
Reputation: 828
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives View Post
Singapore doesn't even appear on half those lists. Its a one-trick poney. It's all finance and...more finance. It's the Chicago of Asian cities.
Shanghai is the LA of Asian cities. It's all GDP, size, manufacturing and more GDP.

Here's some food for thought, maybe somewhere in Asia there are two people on an Asian forum named RayChan and HSINHAI arguing Shanghai vs Hong Kong or Singapore the way we are LA vs Chicago. Ironically Singapore is smaller but like Chicago a intermodal hub and financial center.
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, CA
2,342 posts, read 3,993,347 times
Reputation: 1088
You had a good run Phil but you're weaker without your Hangover comrades Allen (BajanMets) and Stu (Fitzy).

Since you like lists so much, I suppose you wont have any issues with any of these, right Phil?

GDP http://usmayors.org/metroeconomies/0712/FullReport.pdf

Foreign Policy's most dynamic cities The Most Dynamic Cities of 2025 | Foreign Policy

A.T. Kearney http://www.atkearney.com/documents/1...5-2a3f14f0da3a

PR Web Vancouver Voted City With the World

Port container traffic http://aapa.files.cms-plus.com/Stati...ING%202011.pdf

LA is also acknowledged as a larger urban agglomeration by the world, it's one of the most known cities on the planet, it's iconic and it draws more tourism than does Chicago. http://www.demographia.com/db-intlmetgdp2005.pdf

FWIW yes I do think Shanghai is more important than Singapore and at this point is surpassing Hong Kong. It's not even worth debating.
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:30 AM
 
Location: London, U.K.
886 posts, read 1,565,211 times
Reputation: 828
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrantiX View Post
You had a good run Phil but you're weaker without your Hangover comrades Allen (BajanMets) and Stu (Fitzy).

Since you like lists so much, I suppose you wont have any issues with any of these, right Phil?

GDP http://usmayors.org/metroeconomies/0712/FullReport.pdf

Foreign Policy's most dynamic cities The Most Dynamic Cities of 2025 | Foreign Policy

A.T. Kearney http://www.atkearney.com/documents/1...5-2a3f14f0da3a

PR Web Vancouver Voted City With the World

Port container traffic http://aapa.files.cms-plus.com/Stati...ING%202011.pdf

LA is also acknowledged as a larger urban agglomeration by the world, it's one of the most known cities on the planet, it's iconic and it draws more tourism than does Chicago. http://www.demographia.com/db-intlmetgdp2005.pdf

FWIW yes I do think Shanghai is more important than Singapore and at this point is surpassing Hong Kong. It's not even worth debating.
I think we're all aware of the fact that LA is the larger urban area over Chicago. I was never arguing that.

I was never arguing against LA being a more prominent city either. My argument has been and will remain to be that it's not a blow out. Things like "it's not even close", "when it gets $300 billion closer then we'll talk" or "LA blows Chicago away" I honestly just find both inaccurate and absurd.

Hence I ask what puts LA "significantly" on top and all I ever get back is GDP, manufacturing, size, and this inane "cultural exporter" argument. Yes, we all have eyes and ears so we've all heard LA is a massive international trading seaport, just like we've all heard Chicago is the busier airport. Yes, we've all heard the GDP argument and vaguely the finance argument. Yes, we've all heard of Hollywood and logistics. Yes, we've all heard manufacturing and corporate power.

My point is we can go in circles all day, if it was ever a clear cut victory then half the studies wouldn't put Chicago ahead (just see the OP for goodness sakes). I believe they are the same tier, I also think of them as a 2A and 2B case but that's just my opinion. All I'm saying is I've never seen LA solidly hold that second spot across the board the way NYC does for first. It leads me to think the second spot is more blurred than anything else.

Also my name is Josh. Not Phil. I honestly don't know where you Californians get this level of energy from, you come off as a person drenched on Red Bull and Marijuana jumping hyperactively off the walls. Almost all of you west coasters do, god, caffeine or what?
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:00 AM
 
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, CA
2,342 posts, read 3,993,347 times
Reputation: 1088
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAXTOR View Post
Also my name is Josh. Not Phil. I honestly don't know where you Californians get this level of energy from, you come off as a person drenched on Red Bull and Marijuana jumping hyperactively off the walls. Almost all of you west coasters do, god, caffeine or what?
k.
Quote:
I think we're all aware of the fact that LA is the larger urban area over Chicago. I was never arguing that.
k.
Quote:
Hence I ask what puts LA "significantly" on top and all I ever get back is GDP, manufacturing, size, and this inane "cultural exporter" argument. Yes, we all have eyes and ears so we've all heard LA is a massive international trading seaport, just like we've all heard Chicago is the busier airport. Yes, we've all heard the GDP argument and vaguely the finance argument. Yes, we've all heard of Hollywood and logistics. Yes, we've all heard manufacturing and corporate power.
Culture is an immeasurable asset and TBH LA does blow Chicago out of the water on that. If you don't want to admit the obvious then be my guest but there is no city other than NYC that can culturally compete with LA.

LA's given the world

McDonald's
Cheeseburger - Lionel Sternberger - Rite Spot Restaurant, Pasadena
Double Deck Hamburger - Big Boy
ChiliBurger - Tommy’s
Avocado Burgers - Howard's, Culver City
Taco Burger - Del Taco
Pastrami Burger - The Hat, Alhambra
The French Dip Sandwich - Phillipe
The Hot Fudge Sundae - C.C. Brown's, Hollywood
The Shirley Temple and the Cobb Salad - Brown Derby, Hollywood
The Fortune Cookie - David Jung, Hong Kong Noodle Co.
Grammy Awards
Academy Awards
Modern T-Shirt
American Music Awards
Emmy Awards
The Internet
Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Science
Writers Guild
Directors Guild
Screen Actors Guild
Feature Length Motion Pictures
Pentecostal Church
Sunkist
Space Shuttle
Traffic Lights
Billy Graham
The Doors
Bank of America
Western Airlines
Continental Airlines
Hewlet Packard
Paramount Pictures
Universal Studios
Metro Goldwyn Mayor
Columbia Pictures
20th Century Fox
Thrifty Cut Rate Drug Stores
The Broadway Department Stores
Bullocks Department Stores
Robinson's Department Stores
Union 76
Harris & Frank
Security Pacific National Bank
United California Bank (later First Interstate Bank)
United California Bank (Not related with above bank)
Union Bank
California Federal Savings
Home Savings of America
Coast Federal Savings
Sizzler's Restaurant
Carl's Jr.
Ralph's Grocery
Von's Grocery
Hard Rock Cafe
Southern California Gas Company
Metro Water District
A&M Records
Liberty Records
Capitol Records
Metro Theaters
Pacific Theaters
Mann Theaters
Caesars World
Farmers Insurance
Crocker Citizens Bank (Crocker Bank)
Der Wienerschnitzel
Los Angeles Angels
See's Candies
Guess Inc
French Dip
The Tortilla Chip
Fortune Cookie

The world "knows" LA without ever stepped foot in it. They know those palm trees, they know the most famous zip code in the world 90210, they know American cuisine, American culture, American humor, American lifestyle, American habits, American interests, American culture, etc because of LA.

Not Chicago.
Quote:
My point is we can go in circles all day, if it was ever a clear cut victory then half the studies wouldn't put Chicago ahead (just see the OP for goodness sakes). I believe they are the same tier, I also think of them as a 2A and 2B case but that's just my opinion. All I'm saying is I've never seen LA solidly hold that second spot across the board the way NYC does for first. It leads me to think the second spot is more blurred than anything else.
This is your opinion and you're entitled to it but I don't see it this way. I don't even think being in the same tier is plausible yet alone a 2A or 2B is situation. LA surpassed Chicago 30 years ago and has continued widening the gap. At this point Chicago is closer to the next tier of cities than it is to LA and TBH it has a lead but not a large one over the next tier.
Quote:
I was never arguing against LA being a more prominent city either. My argument has been and will remain to be that it's not a blow out. Things like "it's not even close", "when it gets $300 billion closer then we'll talk" or "LA blows Chicago away" I honestly just find both inaccurate and absurd.
GDP was an economical measurement coined by Simon Kuznets. GDP is the most important thing any place be it a city, state, country, continent, or planet can contribute. Think of it as all your hard work put together as a number (you know like the number you see in your bank account after your hard work PAYS off), you're rewarded by the size of your economy. GDP is what keeps the US as the #1 country in all of the world, it's what's causing so much political and economical debate, it's what's driving us scared when we look at China surging, it's what we measure success by. If you want to forge and forget it, be my guest, but don't knock it unless you have $300B of your own that you can donate to Chicago and you don't, no man does.

The world's GDP is $69,899,225,000,000 US is $15,075,675,000,000, and LA is $902,000,000,000.

As far as I'm concerned, LA and Chicago are not in the same tier.
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