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Old 10-20-2012, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
9,828 posts, read 9,429,926 times
Reputation: 6288

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAXTOR View Post
I think we're all aware of the fact that LA is the larger urban area over Chicago. I was never arguing that.

I was never arguing against LA being a more prominent city either. My argument has been and will remain to be that it's not a blow out. Things like "it's not even close", "when it gets $300 billion closer then we'll talk" or "LA blows Chicago away" I honestly just find both inaccurate and absurd.

Hence I ask what puts LA "significantly" on top and all I ever get back is GDP, manufacturing, size, and this inane "cultural exporter" argument. Yes, we all have eyes and ears so we've all heard LA is a massive international trading seaport, just like we've all heard Chicago is the busier airport. Yes, we've all heard the GDP argument and vaguely the finance argument. Yes, we've all heard of Hollywood and logistics. Yes, we've all heard manufacturing and corporate power.

My point is we can go in circles all day, if it was ever a clear cut victory then half the studies wouldn't put Chicago ahead (just see the OP for goodness sakes). I believe they are the same tier, I also think of them as a 2A and 2B case but that's just my opinion. All I'm saying is I've never seen LA solidly hold that second spot across the board the way NYC does for first. It leads me to think the second spot is more blurred than anything else.

Also my name is Josh. Not Phil. I honestly don't know where you Californians get this level of energy from, you come off as a person drenched on Red Bull and Marijuana jumping hyperactively off the walls. Almost all of you west coasters do, god, caffeine or what?

You go in circles because you're not comparing like things. GDP is the sum off a region's economic attriibutes, you don't compare it to one economic sector like finance. Logistics, finance, manufacturing, tourism--you can go back and forth on them all you want but, put it all together, as of today, Los Angeles is ahead by a whopping $350 billion. Chicago could annex Seattle tomorrow, it would still trail L.A. in this area.
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:55 PM
 
Location: London, U.K.
886 posts, read 1,565,711 times
Reputation: 828
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives View Post
You go in circles because you're not comparing like things. GDP is the sum off a region's economic attriibutes, you don't compare it to one economic sector like finance. Logistics, finance, manufacturing, tourism--you can go back and forth on them all you want but, put it all together, as of today, Los Angeles is ahead by a whopping $350 billion. Chicago could annex Seattle tomorrow, it would still trail L.A. in this area.
Since we've taken the conversation through the sum route. Do you believe LA is more important than London, Paris, or Hong Kong despite having a larger GDP?

I already have conceded Chandler that LA is slightly more important and that it has an enormous GDP. How about corporate power and market capitalization?

Market Capitalization (CSA)
Chicago $540.873 Billion
Los Angeles $314.726 Billion

Chicago
52 McDonald's $99.920 Billion
56 Abbott Laboratories $96.369 Billion
93 Kraft Foods $67.356 Billion
125 Boeing $55.459 Billion
173 Accenture $41.567 Billion
237 Exelon $33.383 Billion
238 Baxter International $33.257 Billion
299 Walgreen $28.893 Billion
307 Illinois Tool Works $27.504 Billion
457 CME Group $19.223 Billion
460 Kellogg $19.141 Billion
469 Equity Residential Trust Properties $18.801 Billion

Los Angeles
74 Walt Disney $78.469 Billion
76 Occidental Petroleum $77.225 Billion
127 Amgen $53.793 Billion
236 DirecTV $33.383 Billion
293 Allergan $29.078 Billion
368 Public Storage $23.679 Billion
462 Broadcom $19.099 Billion

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/a81f853e-...144feabdc0.pdf

I almost forgot, you can combine BOTH Los Angeles AND Philly and still fall short to Chicago.

Last edited by BLAXTOR; 10-20-2012 at 01:03 PM..
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
9,828 posts, read 9,429,926 times
Reputation: 6288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzrovian View Post
You are right Raymond. On my last visit to Chicago when I was admiring its architecture, taking the beautiful river cruise and visiting its world class museums and lively neighborhoods (all via public transportation or cabs, just like in NY) all I could think of was how disappointing it was that Chicago did not have another $300 billion of GDP. That's also what I thinking when I was in London and Paris (not to mention Madrid, Barcelona, Buenos Aires etc).

Seek help.
This works both ways. When it's January, and I'm at the beach enjoying breezy 70 degree weather, and you're dressed like a Sherpa, I'm not depressed that L.A. doesn't have as many consulting firms as Chicago or New York. When I'm cruising to my destination in my automobile, I'm not depressed that I can't hop on three trains and a cab to get there much less efficiently, like Chicago or New York.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:32 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,545 posts, read 3,302,916 times
Reputation: 1924
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives View Post
This works both ways. When it's January, and I'm at the beach enjoying breezy 70 degree weather, and you're dressed like a Sherpa, I'm not depressed that L.A. doesn't have as many consulting firms as Chicago or New York. When I'm cruising to my destination in my automobile, I'm not depressed that I can't hop on three trains and a cab to get there much less efficiently, like Chicago or New York.
Yes, LA has better climate than NY and Chicago. And better than London, Paris and Tokyo. So does Tijuana.

You like LA and that's great. I am not trying to change anyone's mind. But Scrantix asked me why I like Chicago and I explained. I only speak for myself. Your desperate attempts to challenge me and convince the world that LA is so great and powerful just reveal your insecurities.

Last edited by Fitzrovian; 10-20-2012 at 01:40 PM..
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, CA
2,342 posts, read 3,994,642 times
Reputation: 1088
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAXTOR View Post
Since we've taken the conversation through the sum route. Do you believe LA is more important than London, Paris, or Hong Kong despite having a larger GDP?

I already have conceded Chandler that LA is slightly more important and that it has an enormous GDP. How about corporate power and market capitalization?

Market Capitalization (CSA)
Chicago $540.873 Billion
Los Angeles $314.726 Billion

I almost forgot, you can combine BOTH Los Angeles AND Philly and still fall short to Chicago.
By total assets, NYC and SF Bay Area are on a level above every other place. I still wouldn't take those assets as a sign that SF Bay Area is more important than LA. I agree with your premise that Chicagoland is a BEAST when it comes to corporate power but it's hardly an even competition for LA on total Gross Metro Product. That's the sum of all your industries and labor pool and your production level.

Market capitalization is a large asset, IMO you're right it should never be discounted but it's the total net worth and value of those corporations, it hardly affects the entire population of the metro. GDP however, does.

Total Market Capitalization, 2012
New York $2.534 Trillion
San Francisco $1.855 Trillion
Dallas $661.380 Billion
Chicago $540.873 Billion
Houston $499.075 Billion
Toronto $392.210 Billion
Atlanta $341.683 Billion
Minneapolis $330.867 Billion
Los Angeles $314.726 Billion
Boston $274.530 Billion
Omaha $252.589 Billion
Calgary $227.798 Billion
Mexico City $192.292 Billion
Charlotte $168.431 Billion
Philadelphia $155.406 Billion
Montreal $126.637 Billion
Indianapolis $114.083 Billion
St Louis $107.316 Billion
Richmond $92.370 Billion
Portland $74.862 Billion
Phoenix $63.027 Billion
Miami $50.324 Billion
Vacouver $39.207 Billion

No one would argue that Dallas, Houston, Toronto, Atlanta, Minneapolis, or SF Bay Area are more important than LA even though their assets and market value are larger. GDP is the standard for a regions economy, I'm not taking away from corporate power but it shouldn't be a breaking decision in a debate like this. TBH, I've seen all the info I need to see, the most important cities are recurringly in this order NYC, LA, Chicagoland, SF Bay Area, DC, Boston, Houston, Dallas/Miami, Philly/Atlanta, Seattle/Detroit, Minneapolis, Denver, San Diego. Some studies put Chicago ahead but they're slanted towards finance especially the studies produced by JP Morgan (Brookings), Citigroup (Economist), or Master Card.
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
9,828 posts, read 9,429,926 times
Reputation: 6288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzrovian View Post
Yes, LA has better climate than NY and Chicago. And better than London, Paris and Tokyo. So does Tijuana.

You like LA and that's great. I am not trying to change anyone's mind. But Scrantix asked me why I like Chicago and I explained. I only speak for myself. Your desperate attempts to challenge me and convince the world that LA is so great and powerful just reveal your insecurities.
Um, you trash Los Angeles every chance you get, in every possible way, day after day, in thread after thread. Who's revealing insecurities? ScrantiX wanted to know why you constantly denigrate Los Angeles, and you responded by...trashing L.A. some more. Equating Los Angeles to Tijuana pffft--who's the desperate one?
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:45 PM
 
Location: London, U.K.
886 posts, read 1,565,711 times
Reputation: 828
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrantiX View Post
By total assets, NYC and SF Bay Area are on a level above every other place. I still wouldn't take those assets as a sign that SF Bay Area is more important than LA. I agree with your premise that Chicagoland is a BEAST when it comes to corporate power but it's hardly an even competition for LA on total Gross Metro Product. That's the sum of all your industries and labor pool and your production level.

Market capitalization is a large asset, IMO you're right it should never be discounted but it's the total net worth and value of those corporations, it hardly affects the entire population of the metro. GDP however, does.
I look at the big picture. That's the type of person I am. I look at the sum of everything, the market capitalization, companies, total personal income, GDP, their industry strengths be it finance, entertainment, logistics, trade derivatives, and the sum of all the studies.

Ignore the rankings by financial firms then, tell me why the likes of Foreign Policy, AT Kearney, GaWC have the two cities in practically the same tier with a slight advantage going either way?

For it, I could keep pointing you to all of Chicago's strengths but it wouldn't matter to you anyway. You're bent on making them appear further from each other than they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrantiX View Post
No one would argue that Dallas, Houston, Toronto, Atlanta, Minneapolis, or SF Bay Area are more important than LA even though their assets and market value are larger. GDP is the standard for a regions economy, I'm not taking away from corporate power but it shouldn't be a breaking decision in a debate like this. TBH, I've seen all the info I need to see, the most important cities are recurringly in this order NYC, LA, Chicagoland, SF Bay Area, DC, Boston, Houston, Dallas/Miami, Philly/Atlanta, Seattle/Detroit, Minneapolis, Denver, San Diego. Some studies put Chicago ahead but they're slanted towards finance especially the studies produced by JP Morgan (Brookings), Citigroup (Economist), or Master Card.
First of all I'm not so much a fan of the urban environments of Dallas and Houston (or LA) but having that said I firmly do believe both (or all 3- LA included) are easily top 8 city material (as do the studies) when it comes to prominence and my order of rank for them almost mirror yours. I admire their corporate power. Those market capitalizations, high net worth's, GDP's, F500's, and the nanotechnology as well as cancer research by Rice University are admirable. I feel the exact same way about the bay area just replace Rice with Berkeley and Stanford and energy with technology. Plus SF has my preferred urban environment so that's another big plus.

To me LA sort of lags. It's reliance on its size is telling and it's a shell of it's former self on corporate power. To me business bases are very important, corporate bases are the engines for assets and revenue and LA really could do a better job to improve.
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:03 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,545 posts, read 3,302,916 times
Reputation: 1924
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives View Post
Um, you trash Los Angeles every chance you get, in every possible way, day after day, in thread after thread. Who's revealing insecurities? ScrantiX wanted to know why you constantly denigrate Los Angeles, and you responded by...trashing L.A. some more. Equating Los Angeles to Tijuana pffft--who's the desperate one?
No, I trash the nonsense that you and your sidekicks spout over here, day after day... LA I don't have a problem with, though i admit it's not my favorite city in the world.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:39 PM
 
1,119 posts, read 2,745,013 times
Reputation: 389
Keep crying

Need some tissue ?

America's Most Powerful Global Cities - Jobs & Economy - The Atlantic Cities

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives View Post
You go in circles because you're not comparing like things. GDP is the sum off a region's economic attriibutes, you don't compare it to one economic sector like finance. Logistics, finance, manufacturing, tourism--you can go back and forth on them all you want but, put it all together, as of today, Los Angeles is ahead by a whopping $350 billion. Chicago could annex Seattle tomorrow, it would still trail L.A. in this area.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:49 PM
 
1,119 posts, read 2,745,013 times
Reputation: 389
Poor my chandler *grin*

No wonder why the Pacific Exchange was closed

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAXTOR View Post
Since we've taken the conversation through the sum route. Do you believe LA is more important than London, Paris, or Hong Kong despite having a larger GDP?

I already have conceded Chandler that LA is slightly more important and that it has an enormous GDP. How about corporate power and market capitalization?

Market Capitalization (CSA)
Chicago $540.873 Billion
Los Angeles $314.726 Billion

Chicago
52 McDonald's $99.920 Billion
56 Abbott Laboratories $96.369 Billion
93 Kraft Foods $67.356 Billion
125 Boeing $55.459 Billion
173 Accenture $41.567 Billion
237 Exelon $33.383 Billion
238 Baxter International $33.257 Billion
299 Walgreen $28.893 Billion
307 Illinois Tool Works $27.504 Billion
457 CME Group $19.223 Billion
460 Kellogg $19.141 Billion
469 Equity Residential Trust Properties $18.801 Billion

Los Angeles
74 Walt Disney $78.469 Billion
76 Occidental Petroleum $77.225 Billion
127 Amgen $53.793 Billion
236 DirecTV $33.383 Billion
293 Allergan $29.078 Billion
368 Public Storage $23.679 Billion
462 Broadcom $19.099 Billion

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/a81f853e-...144feabdc0.pdf

I almost forgot, you can combine BOTH Los Angeles AND Philly and still fall short to Chicago.
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