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Why would we not talk about the near future when evaluating a system? In Spring 2016 two rail exclusive subway stations are opening and ridership is expected to jump up to 80,000 (more than doubling) immediately. These stations are in neighborhoods where a very high percentage of people rely on transit. Lines will continue expanding in multiple directions until 2023, when new projects will likely be happening already.
My point about the system is that it has entirely exclusive ROW and looking at all of ST2 the majority of it is underground or elevated. This makes it functionally more similar to heavy rail than most light rail systems. I'm nt the first one to say this. It's been widely noted. Link is often used as an example of one end of the spectrum when it comes to light rail.
Because it then opens the door for any city to make claims of a future grandiose system, as we all ready know, many things that we think will happen in the future never come to fruition. What part of HRT having higher capacity and faster don't you understand?
Because it then opens the door for any city to make claims of a future grandiose system, as we all ready know, many things that we think will happen in the future never come to fruition.
But what about things that are already partially built? How is that a grandiose vision?
But what about things that are already partially built? How is that a grandiose vision?
Then we can talk about our streetcar or the Belline .Both are partially built but not yet complete.
Then we can talk about MARTA expansion planned for Clayton County ,Emory University adn the 400 expansion up Northern Atlanta sububs.
Do you see how this is not pratical as it stands in this conversation today?
Then we can talk about our streetcar or the Belline .Both are partially built but not yet complete.
Then we can talk about MARTA expansion planned for Clayton County ,Emory University adn the 400 expansion up Northern Atlanta sububs.
Do you see how this is not pratical as it stands in this conversation today?
You definitely could talk about those things. Anything that currently has shovels in the ground, tunnels dug, or is even in final design phase with construction slated to start soon is fair game. Because it is certain that those lines will open.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the projects you mentioned in Atlanta will have the same projected impact as Link in Seattle with ridership increasing from 34K to 200+K and relatively urban and dense neighborhoods that previously lacked rail getting subway stations underneath them.
Obviously it's an unfair comparison because MARTA is much more established, but when talking about the systems mentioning the fact that Link is expected to grow exponentially and change from one line with relatively poor coverage to a system that covers an array of key urban nodes within the next decade makes a lot of sense.
This isn't pie in the sky stuff - I can show you photos of the tunnels and stations that have already been built.
You definitely could talk about those things. Anything that currently has shovels in the ground, tunnels dug, or is even in final design phase with construction slated to start soon is fair game. Because it is certain that those lines will open.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the projects you mentioned in Atlanta will have the same projected impact as Link in Seattle with ridership increasing from 34K to 200+K and relatively urban and dense neighborhoods that previously lacked rail getting subway stations underneath them.
Obviously it's an unfair comparison because MARTA is much more established, but when talking about the systems mentioning the fact that Link is expected to grow exponentially and change from one line with relatively poor coverage to a system that covers an array of key urban nodes within the next decade makes a lot of sense.
This isn't pie in the sky stuff - I can show you photos of the tunnels and stations that have already been built.
The issue is you're trying to portray as if these nodes are going through the tenderloin or upper eastside, Seattle is really not that impressive from both a walkability and density standpoint, the only part of the city wuth a good mass of pedestrian activity is 1st ave, I wouldn't expect much from the addition.
The issue is you're trying to portray as if these nodes are going through the tenderloin or upper eastside, Seattle is really not that impressive from both a walkability and density standpoint, the only part of the city wuth a good mass of pedestrian activity is 1st ave, I wouldn't expect much from the addition.
That's just nonsense re: pedestrian masses: Westlake Center has more pedestrians than first ave. Broadway and Pike - not even in Downtown - gets pretty packed in the evenings, as do other parts of Capitol Hill and other inner neighborhoods. The corner of Broadway and John, where the subway station will be, is surrounded by 30-50k tracts and tons of restaurants/nightlife/shops. That station will be packed. As will the UW station and 45th and brooklyn station (surrounded by dense tracts as well).
Station placement is huge also - these stations, along with Roosevelt, will be literally in the epicenter of the neighborhoods.
They are at 30,000 now. The network fully built out is about 2-3 times larger. Seems mighty fishy!
Do you have any of the required research for FTA funding to back these up? There are gov't models using data of the area to justify ridership.
Look at page 21 of the document - it says 280,000 daily riders are projected to ride Link light rail by 2030, including what was already funded and is currently being built for ST2. These are the numbers that were used to get Federal funding from the FTA. Given that projection, I think it's safe to say that by 2023 (when the ST2 build-out is complete) 200,000+ is a very likely number.
And again - none of this is pie in the sky. This is fully funded, currently being built light rail involving complex tunnels, elevated structures, and bridges. There's a reason Link is by far the most expensive light rail in the US, at $179 million per mile (the average, excluding Link, is $35 million). It's being built out with infrastructure that is usually used to support heavy rail.
Re: Pedestrian Activity - Here's the Seattle Department of Transportation's pedestrian count map. This is the count over a two-hour period. As you can see, while there is a greater concentration downtown, significant pedestrian activity is spread throughout the City. So there goes Snuggah's idea that "only 1st Ave has significant pedestrian activity".
I also think this puts to rest the notion that outside of Downtown and adjacent neighborhoods, Seattle is just "low-density suburban sprawl".
Beautiful city Seattle is. We have pics of Seattle and little bit of Denver on here, anybody gonna post any Atlanta pics?
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My Seattle pics
