Best Vacation: Montreal, Seattle, Toronto, Vancouver (compared, place, life, people)
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Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
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Originally Posted by orzo
Wasn't Belltown already pretty gentrified by then?
Well along 1st and 2nd Ave's sure. I remember 3rd Ave being kinda dicey and a lot of vacant parking lots over by 7th and 8th. I'm noticing a lot more development going towards Denny and I-5. The Whole Foods on Westlake and the mid-rises above it were under construction when I left.
I lived in Capital Hill in Seattle 2000-2005 and last time I visited was 2007. I'm sure my jaw would drop if I took a ride down Denny or Mercer and saw how much the city has changed. Every time I see updated photos I get amazed at how built up the city is becoming. The Cascade and Belltown area was ripe for gentrification at the time I was living there.
You would not recognize South Lake Union and the area northwest of Westlake!
Can you give more details as to the amount of buildings approved along with their height and names?
There is a huge list. I'm not sure where to get one condensed one, but if you go to this thread you can check out all the buildings that are under construction and in late states of design/approval in Seattle: Seattle Downtown Development News 9 - SkyscraperCity
I would like for everyone to evaluate these cities in terms of best vacation. Criteria....
Architecture - MONTREAL
Downtown - TORONTO
Culture - MONTREAL
Entertainment - TORONTO
Events - TORONTO
Food - Pricing and Diversity - TORONTO OR MONTREAL
Museums - TORONTO
Neighborhoods - Urban and suburban - TORONTO
Nightlife - MONTREAL
Parks - VANCOUVER
Safety - ALL ARE PRETTY SAFE
Shopping - TORONTO
Shows - TORONTO
Sports - TORONTO
Uniqueness - MONTREAL
Please feel free to add in Any other criteria except for cost of living. Remember this is for a vacation.
One category where Seattle does win, though, is food. It also beats Toronto for sports, especially if the NBA team comes through next year (which it looks like it will). Also, I'd say Vancouver's downtown is up there with Toronto and Montreal, especially for a tourist due to its compact, walkable nature.
Even if Seattle gets an NBA team again... Seattle is not seeing Toronto in sports.
I wasn't directing that at you and you make good points. To be honest, I don't know much about the CFL's rules at all. I consider football to be my second favorite sport (baseball is my favorite) and part of that is due to the fact that I can't stand many of the NFL's rules. It has just been my experience that the NFL is a much bigger show than the CFL. Relative to the debate on which city is better for tourists (particularly sports fans), an NFL city would be a bigger draw than a CFL city. Unless, of course, it was Jacksonville vs. Toronto. In terms of general appeal and entertainment value, I think the NFL is head and shoulders above. When you get down to the technical aspects of the game? I can easily see the case for the CFL.
I agree with your point about NCAA football vs. NFL football. In fact, I think you could make an even better argument for NCAA basketball vs. NBA baskeball. The NCAA tournament is a bigger draw than the NBA palyoffs. The NCAA championship sells out NFL football stadiums with nearly 90,000 fans. The NBA playoffs don't have that kind of draw. I would argue though, that a lot of appeal for the collegiate sports is the lack of professional incentives for the players (i.e. salary). There's a feeling (whether it's true or not is debatable) that college players play for the love of the game, not a salary. It's also accessible in non-major markets. Many small towns well outside of major metro areas have huge colleges (Notre Dame, Penn State, Texas A&M, LSU, Wisconsin, Nebraska, etc, etc, etc) and you have allegiances to institutions, not cities/metros. College sports are a bird of a different feather. I don't know that you could make a real comparison to NCAA following and CFL (I don't even know if you were trying to).
We are basically of the same view.
As for the NCAA football following compared to the CFL, I'd say the NCAA is more ''big time'' than the CFL (but not the NFL of course), and this in spite of the fact that talent-wise the NCAA is inferior to both the NFL and even the CFL.
It just goes to show that quite a few people prefer to support something that appeals to them for a variety of reasons (often proximity and local identification) as opposed to what is generally perceived as ''the best''.
I'm not trying to "convince someone". I'm telling you which is more fun from personal experience. If someone wants to know which is more fun, they should try both themselves.
I can tell you from personal experience that there is no way an average CFL game (especially in Toronto) is ''more fun'' (if that's what we are judging) than an average NFL game.
And I say this as someone who has been to hundreds of sporting events all over the world.
And for whom the 1989 Grey Cup at Skydome could be the most exciting sporting event I ever attended:
Looks like there were 73 buildings permitted or under construction in the downtown area and over 8,000 new residential units at that time. I imagine those numbers have grown since then. I'll try and find a more detailed list of the names of the projects and post them later.
Architecture- Montreal with its juxtaposition of new and old. Vancouver for "modern."
Food - This one's tough, but for me... it has to be Montreal. I love Quebecois cuisine. Poutine alone gives it a huge edge, but they do such a great job with infusing French methodology and local ingredients. Rich meats are the thing in Montreal. Lots of duck, rabbit, venison, etc. Also, my favorite beer brewer is based just outside of Montreal (Unibroue). Vancouver would get my edge for seafood with Seattle being on its heels. Toronto gets the nod for diverse ethnic options. But gun to my head, Montreal would be where I'd go simply for food.
I think you're underestimating Seattle's food scene. For of all, Seattle has better seafood than Vancouver - I've eaten tons in both and Seattle wins handily. Second, as I posted earlier, Seattle's food scene has really erupted lately and is finally getting accolades.
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