Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Grapico - Seattle's downtown vibrancy completely hinges on the season. During summer, late spring, and early fall, the vibrancy is notably much better than Minneapolis or Atlanta. It doesn't quite have the critical mass of Union Square and other central parts of SF, but is still very high and sustained throughout the different sections of downtown and adjacent neighborhoods. Sidewalks are packed, people are spilling out of restaurants, bars, shops, etc. - it has the feel of a bustling, big city downtown. I work in downtown Seattle and took a little hike through a couple of sections of downtown to get to a restaurant today, and there was barely any room on the sidewalk block after block. All types of people and activities happening.
During the other 7-8 months of the year, the vibrancy is notably less and probably closer to the lower tier. The difference is as big as I've seen anywhere in the US, even colder weather cities. I'm really not sure of the reason, but walk through downtown Seattle and adjacent neighborhoods in late July and then again in late January and you will wonder if you are in the same place.
That said, street level activity (in terms of shops, retail, restaurants, bars) and pedestrian-friendly areas are more sustained in DT Seattle than DT Minneapolis and DT Atlanta year-round. I agree, not quite on the Boston/SF tier, but definitely above Minneapolis and Atlanta.
Finally, DT Seattle and adjacent neighborhoods have made enormous strides in urbanity in the last 5 or 6 years. Tons of pedestrian-friendly mid/high-rise residential and retail sprouting up at an unprecedented pace, a brand new urban neighborhood in South Lake Union, more infrastructure projects than you can count (light rail subway, streetcars, pedestrian-oriented park block streets, many other bike/pedestrian street improvements), and there has been a flood of new restaurants, shops and bars that are rejuvenating areas across the central parts of the City. Amazon's amazing growth is spurring the City to develop really fast and things are changing quickly (in some way, for the worse - prices are skyrocketing).
Building like this, with hundreds of residential units and a bar, restaurant, grocery store, barber shop, cafe, bike shop etc. all in the lobby of the building are popping up all over: http://www.via6seattle.com/.
Also, Seattle's adjacent neighborhoods feel more urban than the lower tier's. Here is Capitol Hill a couple of miles from downtown, which will have a subway station in 2016:
And I don't disagree with any of that. As I've said several times, it is somewhere in the middle. I can't in good conscious say it is on level of SF/Boston/Philly like ironcouger is trying to do.
Seattle might be "more on par" with SF/Boston/Philly but are clearly still below them in terms of street activity.
2010 official census
SF pop is 805,235 in 46.87 sq miles with 17,180 ppsm
Boston pop is 617,594 in 48.43 sq miles with 12,752 ppsm
Philadelphia pop is 1,526,006 in 134.1 sq miles with 11,379 ppsm
Seattle pop is 608,660 in 83.87 sq miles for a density of 7,257 ppsm
As you can see Seattle has the lowest population and density
As you can see from the link above at a 1, 3, 5 and 10 mile radius from city hall Seattle loses in density to SF, Boston and Philly in every category but is above Atlanta and Minny in every category. I think it is fair to say Seatle is beneath SF/Boston and Philly but above Atlanta/Minny. This is just my opinion from visiting all of these cities.
FYI - 2013 estimates have Seattle at 634K (vs 608K in 2010). Like I said, the pace of growth is crazy right now.
And I don't disagree with any of that. As I've said several times, it is somewhere in the middle. I can't in good conscious say it is on level of SF/Boston/Philly like ironcouger is trying to do.
I agree - I know all those places and Seattle is not there yet - especially not SF. That said, using the indicators you mentioned of vibrancy, street-level activity, and unique establishments, DT and the inner neighborhoods of Seattle rank high. It's certainly a lot more than just skyscrapers and chain stores.
That said, I think IronCouger was mentioning Target because it shows that DT proper has everyday amenities that make living Downtown easier. There are grocery stores, casual department stores, drug stores, right in the heart of downtown, along with the more touristy attractions, funkier places, and high-end stuff.
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
10,745 posts, read 23,804,636 times
Reputation: 14660
Here's how I see it, the only cities in the US that have a true level of old school density and a very healthy level of downtown vibrance and activity along and dense walkable and cohesive neighborhoods outside of downtown as well with comprehensive mass transit that really make living without a car very easy are...
Bos-Wash corridor cities
Chicago
San Francisco
and perhaps a few other Rust Belt Cities at variable levels.
Though Sunbelt and other Western Cities are adding infill they aren’t anywhere close to the ones mentioned above. What's impressive about Seattle is it seems to be adding more urban density and infill along with street level retail more rapidly than probably any other city in the country and is already at a level where living in the city without a car is fairly easy. Portland is getting there as well, ( I haven’t been to Minny so can’t comment), and to a lesser degree though still at a fairly fast pace Denver. So whom ever had said Seattle is somewhere in between Boston and Atlanta I would agree. Though if there is any city in the country that is likely to catch up to these top tier cities and their level of cohesive density in the future, it's definitely Seattle.
Last edited by Champ le monstre du lac; 07-25-2013 at 04:37 PM..
Here's how I see it. The only cities in the US that have a true level of old school density and a very healthy level of downtown vibrance and activity along and dense walkable neighborhoods outside of downtown as well with comprehensive mass transit that really make living without a car very easy are...
Bos-Wash corridor cities
Chicago
San Francisco
and perhaps a few other Rust Belt Cities at variable levels.
Though Sunbelt and other Western Cities are adding infill they aren’t anywhere close to the ones mentioned above. What's impressive about Seattle is it seems to be adding more urban density and infill along street level retail more rapidly than probably any other city in the country and is already at a level where living in the city without a car is fairly easy. Portland is getting there as well, ( I haven’t been to Minny so can’t comment), and to a lesser degree though still at a fairly fast pace Denver. So whom ever had said Seattle is somewhere in between Boston and Atlanta I would agree. Though if there is any city in the country that is likely to catch up to the top tier level of density in the future, it's definitely Seattle.
Spot on - thank you for stating this more clearly than I could.
So were basing the polls not on facts or city size but personal preference thats fine then dont freak out when I bring up facts if your basing on personal preference your choice . The fact is and you cant change it is Seattle Downtown is on level with Boston , Philadelpia, and Sanfrancisco. When Comparing Population , Retail base, Office Space, Hotel Rooms or closer to those cities. Seattle downtown almost doubles Minneapolis and Atlanta in those Catagories. You can have your personal preference though.
I agree with this.
Furthermore I do feel that Seattle's downtown has the level of quality amenities and overall upscale vibrancy that qualify it as one of the nation's top 5 downtowns.
Yes, within the tier that includes SF, Boston and Seattle( and the 2 other cities I wont name) there is yet varying degrees of vibrancy and amenities, but all 5 have passed the basic threshold I feel all downtowns should aspire to.
Grapico - Seattle's downtown vibrancy completely hinges on the season. During summer, late spring, and early fall, the vibrancy is notably much better than Minneapolis or Atlanta. It doesn't quite have the critical mass of Union Square and other central parts of SF, but is still very high and sustained throughout the different sections of downtown and adjacent neighborhoods. Sidewalks are packed, people are spilling out of restaurants, bars, shops, etc. - it has the feel of a bustling, big city downtown. I work in downtown Seattle and took a little hike through a couple of sections of downtown to get to a restaurant today, and there was barely any room on the sidewalk block after block. All types of people and activities happening.
During the other 7-8 months of the year, the vibrancy is notably less and probably closer to the lower tier. The difference is as big as I've seen anywhere in the US, even colder weather cities. I'm really not sure of the reason, but walk through downtown Seattle and adjacent neighborhoods in late July and then again in late January and you will wonder if you are in the same place.
That said, street level activity (in terms of shops, retail, restaurants, bars) and pedestrian-friendly areas are more sustained in DT Seattle than DT Minneapolis and DT Atlanta year-round. I agree, not quite on the Boston/SF tier, but definitely above Minneapolis and Atlanta.
Finally, DT Seattle and adjacent neighborhoods have made enormous strides in urbanity in the last 5 or 6
years. Tons of pedestrian-friendly mid/high-rise residential and retail sprouting up at an unprecedented pace, a brand new urban neighborhood in South Lake Union, more infrastructure projects than you can count (light rail subway, streetcars, pedestrian-oriented park block streets, many other bike/pedestrian street improvements), and there has been a flood of new restaurants, shops and bars that are rejuvenating areas across the central parts of the City. Amazon's amazing growth is spurring the City to develop really fast and things are changing quickly (in some way, for the worse - prices are skyrocketing).
Building like this, with hundreds of residential units and a bar, restaurant, grocery store, barber shop, cafe, bike shop etc. all in the lobby of the building are popping up all over: http://www.via6seattle.com/.
Also, Seattle's adjacent neighborhoods feel more urban than the lower tier's. Here is Capitol Hill a couple of miles from downtown, which will have a subway station in 2016:
Here's how I see it, the only cities in the US that have a true level of old school density and a very healthy level of downtown vibrance and activity along and dense walkable and cohesive neighborhoods outside of downtown as well with comprehensive mass transit that really make living without a car very easy are...
Bos-Wash corridor cities
Chicago
San Francisco
and perhaps a few other Rust Belt Cities at variable levels.
Though Sunbelt and other Western Cities are adding infill they aren’t anywhere close to the ones mentioned above. What's impressive about Seattle is it seems to be adding more urban density and infill along with street level retail more rapidly than probably any other city in the country and is already at a level where living in the city without a car is fairly easy. Portland is getting there as well, ( I haven’t been to Minny so can’t comment), and to a lesser degree though still at a fairly fast pace Denver. So whom ever had said Seattle is somewhere in between Boston and Atlanta I would agree. Though if there is any city in the country that is likely to catch up to these top tier cities and their level of cohesive density in the future, it's definitely Seattle.
Honestly, this posts is exactly how I feel - good job.
Nice! Some homeless dudes sitting on the corner, a sure sign that Seattle is now in the big league.
I was not impressed with the video either.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
