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I won't and don't make claims that I know how TO should market itself stating from MY stand point which is a commonly heard stand point TO needs to stand out more.It does not comparatively speaking..Yes it is and opinion but its noot a rare opinion either.
But dont attack me if my experiences are not how someone else might view the city.Again I reiterate that it was all positive.If the worse that I could say is I was underhelmed then its not that bad.
I really don't see what the big deal about that comment.When I go back I hope that opinion will be better but TO just does not hold any mystery for me.
Let me list some of my favorite places:
Some I would like to go to but have not been:
Victoria B.C.-Historic architecture and natural setting
Rio de Jinero-culture music .food dance
Rejevick,Iceland-unique culuture and cross blend of Nordic and native culture
Madrid Spain-history,culture and architecture
Santiago,Chile-history culture and archtecture
Lisbon,Portugal-history blah blah blah
Accra,Ghana-historyarchitecture natural environment
Senegal-ditto
Dominican Republic-natural environment msic and food
Caracas,Venezuela-ditto
Sydney Australia-all things Australian.Kangaroos to Boomerangs.lol
Minneapolis Minnesota-All things Prince and the Minnesota sound
Halifax Nova Scotia-ties with American black culture and underground railroad
These are some of the places I have been and really liked
All of them have history architecture,cultural and natural settings in common:
Montreal
Quebec City
Savannah ,Georgia
Santa Fe,NM
NYC
Washington D.C.
Frankfurt,Germany
Venice,Florence and Milan Italy
Saudi Arabia
London
Paris
What does Toronto have?Oh yeh.....DIVERSITY!
Toronto's still a growing city that's trying to carve a niche out for itself. It'll probably have something notable one day. As it is now, it's just a pretty good place to live.
Toronto's still a growing city that's trying to carve a niche out for itself. It'll probably have something notable one day. As it is now, it's just a pretty good place to live.
How long were you in Toronto when you visited and where did you go, what did you do? Did you partake in any cultural festivals, local theatre productions, did you visit any nabe's, did you see the CN Tower (which is notable) did you do Edgewalk, did you learn anything about the city's history, did you see Rivell's work or Calavatra's, did you go to the ROM or AGO or CNE or Nuit Blanche or Luminato or Tiff, did you shop along Queen St West and check out a local band at one of the many venue's Did you go to Kensington Market or St Lawrence Markets?...Did you see a performance by the Canadian Opera Company, Did you have a few drinks at the Distillery District, did you go to Greek Town or Little Italy and eat at any of those restaurants, Did you go to Casa Loma, did you walk through High Park and watch some Shakespeare in the park?
How long were you in Toronto when you visited and where did you go?
Been there twice times. Couple weeks was the longest; a long weekend was the other. Everyone takes you to Kensington Market for some reason. It's okay. Walked around a lot of downtown neighborhoods AGO is alright. Eaton Centre is alright. Music scene seemed cool; art galleries seemed really mediocre. Really liked Toronto Island, though more conceptually than actually. Liked Greektown. City, especially in what is probably Old Toronto, is surprisingly flat. The Beaches are pretty neat, too. I really think Toronto can do a hell of a lot more with its waterfront, especially for summer. The CN Tower is big and ugly, the food is terrible, and the view is pretty good. That giant expressway separating downtown from the waterfront is simply awful. My friend moved away from there this year, so my guess is that I won't be seeing the city again for a while but it's not really that high on my priority list since I feel I've been there enough so I don't think it's going to be on my rotation of short, close by trip destinations for a while.
How long were you in Toronto when you visited and where did you go, what did you do? Did you partake in any cultural festivals, local theatre productions, did you visit any nabe's, did you see the CN Tower (which is notable) did you do Edgewalk, did you learn anything about the city's history, did you see Rivell's work or Calavatra's, did you go to the ROM or AGO or CNE or Nuit Blanche or Luminato or Tiff, did you shop along Queen St West and check out a local band at one of the many venue's Did you go to Kensington Market or St Lawrence Markets?...Did you see a performance by the Canadian Opera Company, Did you have a few drinks at the Distillery District, did you go to Greek Town or Little Italy and eat at any of those restaurants, Did you go to Casa Loma, did you walk through High Park and watch some Shakespeare in the park?
Well, you added a lot of stuff there. For most of what you listed in terms of places and venues, yes. For specific events like Nuit Blanche or Shakespeare in the Park and other like things--big international cities have those in general and NYC is the bigger and more international city so I just do those at home. Basically, I found Toronto to be a lot less packed and cleaner NYC, but at the same time duller, with less variety, fewer really distinguishing features, and somehow an even worse waterfront. However, living there would probably be pretty great if I secured a NYC wage job in Toronto as things seemed much cheaper, the air was cleaner, crime rates are really truly low, and the public schools are probably much better (this last one I don't know, but I think it's probably accurate).
Been there twice times. Couple weeks was the longest; a long weekend was the other. Everyone takes you to Kensington Market for some reason. It's okay. Walked around a lot of downtown neighborhoods AGO is alright. Eaton Centre is alright. Music scene seemed cool; art galleries seemed really mediocre. Really liked Toronto Island, though more conceptually than actually. Liked Greektown. City, especially in what is probably Old Toronto, is surprisingly flat. The Beaches are pretty neat, too. I really think Toronto can do a hell of a lot more with its waterfront, especially for summer. The CN Tower is big and ugly, the food is terrible, and the view is pretty good. That giant expressway separating downtown from the waterfront is simply awful. My friend moved away from there this year, so my guess is that I won't be seeing the city again for a while but it's not really that high on my priority list since I feel I've been there enough so I don't think it's going to be on my rotation of short, close by trip destinations for a while.
So you did some things but most of the things on my list you did not and actually those things are the primary aspects of Toronto that come to my mind so there are still PLENTY of things to see and explore.. Its an opportunity cost and I totally understand that you will choose to go out and see other parts of the world.. I would too but I'm just saying you only scratched the surface of what the city offers.. I will say in some ways yes Toronto like many cities is carving out niches for itself, but in others we have established local scenes and niches and it not just for those who live here.
As for the CN Tower - it isn't beautiful but it is iconic and at the time of its construction was a marvel of engineering and like it or love it - it is the iconic structure in Toronto. I do agree with your sentiments on the Gardner Expressway. There are cool elements of our waterfront but you are right the separation is an issue but at the same time the waterfront is only one of many elements.
Well, you added a lot of stuff there. For most of what you listed in terms of places and venues, yes. For specific events like Nuit Blanche or Shakespeare in the Park and other like things--big international cities have those in general and NYC is the bigger and more international city so I just do those at home. Basically, I found Toronto to be a lot less packed and cleaner NYC, but at the same time duller, with less variety, fewer really distinguishing features, and somehow an even worse waterfront. However, living there would probably be pretty great if I secured a NYC wage job in Toronto as things seemed much cheaper, the air was cleaner, crime rates are really truly low, and the public schools are probably much better (this last one I don't know, but I think it's probably accurate).
Yes you respond quickly and I tend to edit multiple times after I post.. Of course large international cities are going to have festivals and in some cases are similar to their counterparts but Toronto does have unique festivals and the city is chock and block full of things you didn't see... sure other cities are going to be chock and block with things Toronto doesn't have but again - I've listed things that other cities simply don't have. Is there going to be duplication in areas - of course but Toronto has many local elements for the taking if you know about them.
For example - NYC doesn't have the Buddies in Bad times theatre... it has other theatre to be sure that Toronto does not but this one and plenty of other local ones it doesn't have - with local playwrights and performances.. as much as some would like to will this away Toronto does have TIFF which is absolutely regarded as the worlds second most important film festival - it just can't be dismissed!
As I've said before and agree with you, NYC obviously will kill Toronto in terms of museums but at the same time for what Toronto does have it has displays and pieces you will not see elsewhere and this is something to be appreciated not dismissed. If you use NYC as the measuring stick against Toronto in many aspects Toronto will fall short, history, architecture, fine arts you name it but really this isn't who we are comparing and largely speaking of and the vast majority of Toronto residents wouldn't compare Toronto to New York.. This isn't to say the city isn't appealing and we are actually attracting more urban visitors from places like NYC and L.A so this is a good thing.
So you did some things but most of the things on my list you did not and actually those things are the primary aspects of Toronto that come to my mind so there are still PLENTY of things to see and explore.. Its an opportunity cost and I totally understand that you will choose to go out and see other parts of the world.. I would too but I'm just saying you only scratched the surface of what the city offers.. I will say in some ways yes Toronto like many cities is carving out niches for itself, but in others we have established local scenes and niches and it not just for those who live here.
As for the CN Tower - it isn't beautiful but it is iconic and at the time of its construction was a marvel of engineering and like it or love it - it is the iconic structure in Toronto. I do agree with your sentiments on the Gardner Expressway. There are cool elements of our waterfront but you are right the separation is an issue but at the same time the waterfront is only one of many elements.
I did maybe half of what you mentioned, but didn't come away with an impression that it was particularly great--it was definitely enjoyable, but it wasn't something that would really give me pause and go again. Now, did I do exactly the wrong half of things and the other half I didn't do were going to be much more impressive? Probably not. However, this is from my own personal context of what sorts of things I've seen before, so I don't think it should dissuade people in general from going to Toronto. I will say that if Chicago or SF were somehow magically within as easy a reach as Toronto from NYC, I would probably prefer going to those places more often than Toronto.
I did maybe half of what you mentioned, but didn't come away with an impression that it was particularly great--it was definitely enjoyable, but it wasn't something that would really give me pause and go again. Now, did I do exactly the wrong half of things and the other half I didn't do were going to be much more impressive? Probably not. However, this is from my own personal context of what sorts of things I've seen before, so I don't think it should dissuade people in general from going to Toronto. I will say that if Chicago or SF were somehow magically within as easy a reach as Toronto from NYC, I would probably prefer going to those places more often than Toronto.
and fair enough the other half may or may not but the visit was incomplete - hey I said to the other guy i'll say to you - Toronto is NOT going to be everything to all people and some people will prefer it to the likes of Chicago and or S.F - some not.. Many will come multiple times and still find magic in each of these places over the other - it is what it is and believe me that's ok.. From my perspective at least you've cited things you did and I appreciate the efforts you made other than just walking down Yonge Street and seem to be a person one can rationalize with.
NYC I think is widely regarded in the N.A context as the premier city and I would argue probably of the Western Hemisphere and the world so hard to argue that fact. I think the one arena where Toronto actually gives the Big apple a run for its money is in the festival realm during the summer and number- sheer number and diversity of such. Also Toronto has a plethora of cool nabe's but this needs to be experienced with walking shoes and probably a local who can take you to them. Anyway, Toronto will have magic for some and not others and that is fine with me.. if you do get back up here visiting friend(s) than I do suggest seeing more of the city. If not to WOW you the widely coveted and intangible magic - at least for more enjoyable experiences.
Finally, Toronto's core is pretty flat but immediately east of that core is a large ravine with the Don river flowing through it.. I would say far from flat and very accessible walk from the core as well for recreational pursuits.
curious what would you do with the Islands that you were impressed with a least conceptually?
and fair enough the other half may or may not but the visit was incomplete - hey I said to the other guy i'll say to you - Toronto is NOT going to be everything to all people and some people will prefer it to the likes of Chicago and or S.F - some not.. Many will come multiple times and still find magic in each of these places over the other - it is what it is and believe me that's ok.. From my perspective at least you've cited things you did and I appreciate the efforts you made other than just walking down Yonge Street and seem to be a person one can rationalize with.
NYC I think is widely regarded in the N.A context as the premier city and I would argue probably of the Western Hemisphere and the world so hard to argue that fact. I think the one arena where Toronto actually gives the Big apple a run for its money is in the festival realm during the summer and number- sheer number and diversity of such. Also Toronto has a plethora of cool nabe's but this needs to be experienced with walking shoes and probably a local who can take you to them. Anyway, Toronto will have magic for some and not others and that is fine with me.. if you do get back up here visiting friend(s) than I do suggest seeing more of the city. If not to WOW you the widely coveted and intangible magic - at least for more enjoyable experiences.
Finally, Toronto's core is pretty flat but immediately east of that core is a large ravine with the Don river flowing through it.. I would say far from flat and very accessible walk from the core as well for recreational pursuits.
curious what would you do with the Islands that you were impressed with a least conceptually?
Yea, people will definitely have personal preferences--that's guaranteed. If anyone were to ask me which of these cities to visit, I would pretty easily recommend SF and Chicago over Toronto for most visitors.
It's unlikely Toronto really gives NYC a run for its money when it comes to festivals. There might be a couple events that are of really large size as in NYC, but those will be relatively few in number while the greater number and variety of festivals that a city the size of NYC is going to have isn't going to be comparable. I'm not against seeing Toronto again as a trip out of the city is always welcome.
I had heard Toronto had ravines and bluffs and for some reason expected that to be obvious in the terrain of the city core. I didn't expect the core to be that flat.
They are islands in a giant body of water close to a major downtown. Just the description alone sounds great. Better would be if the Toronto waterfront were more appealing to look at and the skyline was more distinctive.
It's unlikely Toronto really gives NYC a run for its money when it comes to festivals. There might be a couple events that are of really large size as in NYC, but those will be relatively few in number while the greater number and variety of festivals that a city the size of NYC is going to have isn't going to be comparable. I'm not against seeing Toronto again as a trip out of the city is always welcome.
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I'd have to look into the festival scene in NYC.. As I'm sure one would need to do for Toronto if they were only familiar with the larger token festivals.. this past weekend we had the largest Ukrainian and Polish festivals in North America.. in one weekend! It really is not unusual for Toronto to eat multicultural and diverse festivals like these continuously for breakfast over the summer!
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