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I am a die hard Cardinals fan, but my dad always taught me it was a friendlier rivalry than some others (f***ing Mets). Because St. Louis sucked it up this year and didn't make it to the playoffs I rooted like hell for the Cubs this year. I mean if Boston can win (twice those bastards) you guys can too!
Chicago and St. Louis have a long history of competing with one another. In the 19th century there was quite a rivalry between the two cities, and it was unclear at that time which one would become the unofficial economic and cultural capital of the Midwest. Chicago won the battle, but the rivalry continues--mainly from the St. Louis side, as far as I can tell (though Chicagoans are often arrogant about their city in comparison to the rest of the Midwestern cities).
Being from Wisconsin originally (even though my Mom was from Chicago), I've seen the Chicago arrogance in full force--and it ain't pretty. And the Illinois-hating in Wisconsin is really provincial and stupid. It is true that Chicago has a lot more to offer than the other cities of the Midwest--but you don't need to kick a dying horse. Places like Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, and Cleveland need all of the help they can get. These cities are slowing improving and "gentrifying", but meaninful improvement won't be possible without changing the larger economic conditions in the Midwest. And this would strenghten Chicago AND the rust belt cities, since Chicago is the de facto capital of the region. What's good for the rust belt is good for Chicago.
... and, I suppose, what's good for Chicago is good for the Rust Belt, I presume...
I visited St. Louis once several years ago--not a bad town,and I may visit again, but have no real desire to live there, largely because of the steamy summers.
It's always interesting to read about other regional rivalries; around here, it's always the old Boston vs. New York argument. In the Midwest, I can guess that it's Chicago against Everyone Else (i.e. Milwaukee, St. Louis, Cleveland, Detroit, Minn-St. Paul, etc.)
I guess that provincialism is everywhere. I can say for certain that "St. Louis" never comes up around here (New England).
Being from Wisconsin originally (even though my Mom was from Chicago), I've seen the Chicago arrogance in full force--and it ain't pretty. And the Illinois-hating in Wisconsin is really provincial and stupid. It is true that Chicago has a lot more to offer than the other cities of the Midwest--but you don't need to kick a dying horse. Places like Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, and Cleveland need all of the help they can get. These cities are slowing improving and "gentrifying", but meaninful improvement won't be possible without changing the larger economic conditions in the Midwest. And this would strenghten Chicago AND the rust belt cities, since Chicago is the de facto capital of the region. What's good for the rust belt is good for Chicago.
I agree - it sucks and it sucks a lot. But it's hardly unique to the Midwest. In the Deep South (where I'm originally from) it's Atlanta versus everyone else. And for the longest time, I despised Atlanta and said I would never live there because i couldn't stand the arrogance I encountered among them, especially towards my home state of Alabama, when they were only 150 miles away and no different from us! But now I realize all of that is a little silly and that every town has good and bad people.
In Chicago it's the same way. I'm surprised that people from St. Louis say they experience so much negativity from Chicagoans. I live up here in Chicago now and even I don't get flak or nasty attitudes for being from Alabama. Alabama is one of those places that almost always gets trashed no matter where I go. It's worse on the East Coast (New York, Philly, D.C., etc) than anywhere else. But even still..................I haven't experienced any of that in Chicago. So I definitely wouldn't expect such negativity towards St. Louis, a place that's bigger and more similar to Chicago.
BTW.................as for crime. It's overrated. Yes St. Louis has a crime problem, as does Chicago, as does Detroit, hell the United States as a whole has a crime problem. But none of these places are Baghdad or Kabul. I went to St. Louis the year that they were the #1 on "most dangerous cities in America" list. Nothing happened. I went downtown and even to the North Side. I went to Detroit recently, and they've just been named the "most dangerous city in America." Nothing happened, and yes I did venture into some of the city's most depressed neighborhoods (mostly on the east side). I went to New York as a child when that city was the most dangerous in America (now of course it's the safest big city in America, but back like around 1991 you know that wasn't the case!). I went to New Orleans before Katrina where their murder rate was the worst in the country, and ditto for Washington, D.C. And I'm a native of Birmingham, AL, recently named the sixth most dangerous city in the U.S. And nothing happened in any of those cities! Well, except for Birmingham, but I lived there for over 20 years so I was bound to see something.
I, born in Chicago, do not hate St. Louis, Milwaukee, St. Paul/Minnea,Indianapolis etc...as towns...In fact I like them for what they are in their own ways....I just hate their sports teams, which are rivals to mine...That is all...
[quote=Sleeping in Skyscrapers;2112632]Most unfortunately so many Chicagoans (I apologize for mis-spelling) I've run into feel so incredibly threatened by St. Louis.
Most people in Chicago could care less about sleepy towns of St. Louis, Kansas City, & Oklahoma City......there's nothing threatening about St. Louis.
I will be perfectly honest, I was afraid of that sort of attitude. Most unfortunately so many Chicagoans (I apologize for mis-spelling) I've run into feel so incredibly threatened by St. Louis. And I honestly cannot imagine why. I've attended the University of Illinois in Champaign, IL for over 3 years now (grew up in St. Louis) and I've lost count of the number of Chicago-land (granted many are not from the city but the "burbs") who absolutely hate St. Louis with a passion. Amazingly, when I ask them if they have been there the vast majority say no! Its incredible to me. Possibly the Chicago media has something to do with this? Regardless, I'm not sure where this stems from, but if it is a silly sports rivalry that is just plain sad. Can we be bigger than that? After all, Chicago prides itself on being a world class cosmopolitan city - but with "Midwestern friendl-ness".
Why should Chicagoans worry about or have negative feelings for St. Louis?
At first this hatefullness and disdain completely turned me off from Chicago (and I'm sure it has prevented many other would-be Chicagoans from moving there), dispite the many opportunities there. I equated Chicagoans with the very cold, very one-dimensional beer and baseball types (granted St. Louis has more than a hand-ful of those also - but possibly that why I am moving away and not to St. Louis) However, unquestionably I have run into several good-hearted and intelligent Chicagoans who are passionate about life with a variety of talents and cultural interests. So, I now know there are good and interesting people there; so I have again been considering it as a place to pursue a life.
I'm a young professional in my mid 20's and I was simply hoping to get some intelligent advice on what it like to live in Chicago. What are nice areas to live that might be similar to St. Louis neighborhoods like U. City? Soulard? Washington Ave.? What kinds of life-changes should I expect in adapting from St. Louis to Chicago? Is it realistic to have a car (ex: Manhattan - its not.)? Is there a strong scene for theatre? museums? What is the music scene like? I know there are good restaurants, but in general what is life like in Chicago beyond sports when comparing it to St. Louis (to give me some frame of reference? Thanks for your time and your input
Good points. The only, (I mean the only thing and I've learned to ignore it) thing I don't like about the Chicago area, is the "living in a bubble" ignorance many residents/locals have about the rest of the midwest.
Heres a perfect example: I was out on a hike in a local state park with a local hiking/outdoor organization. One woman, lives in Chicago, but grew in a far, far outlying suburb was talking about how much she just thought Chicago was absolutely the best city in the country.
Talked about how she had an extended business trip to Indianapolis and how she talked about "Oh there was nothing to do there, no culture, all people did was talk about sports." And I commented don't you think some people in other parts of the country might think that way of Chicago?
She said Milwaukee was boring too, except during Summerfest.
Then she talked about an extended business trip to Detroit. Talked about what a wasteland it is from the decline of the auto industry, and how unsafe she felt, (but she was actually staying a nearby suburb).
I basically commented that up until the late 60s Detroit was very close to being on par with Detroit, and that apart from Chicagos effective mayor leadership that managed racial tensions much better and helped bring in diverse businesses.
She said "Oh no, they're so fundamentally different. Although I really did really like the Art museum." so she mentioned one redeeming feature. I asked well apart from the good leadership of Chicago over the past few decades, what does Chicago have?
She commented in a snooty way " Uh culture?" "for example" I said. She said "well Chicago is the place where African Americans migrating up from the south and brought their culture and music (blues and soul)." I'm like "WHAT!!!, and Detroit and St. Louis don't have that?"
Well, you get the picture. Some Chicago natives need to do a little more exploring and open up their minds. Other than that its great.
Most unfortunately so many Chicagoans (I apologize for mis-spelling) I've run into feel so incredibly threatened by St. Louis.
Most people in Chicago could care less about sleepy towns of St. Louis, Kansas City, & Oklahoma City......there's nothing threatening about St. Louis.
Well, maybe they should a little. Don't know about Oklahoma City. Kansas City and St. Louis are not sleepy towns. And Chicago is mostly a bigger version of those two.
Chicago and St. Louis have a long history of competing with one another. In the 19th century there was quite a rivalry between the two cities, and it was unclear at that time which one would become the unofficial economic and cultural capital of the Midwest. Chicago won the battle, but the rivalry continues--mainly from the St. Louis side, as far as I can tell (though Chicagoans are often arrogant about their city in comparison to the rest of the Midwestern cities).
Being from Wisconsin originally (even though my Mom was from Chicago), I've seen the Chicago arrogance in full force--and it ain't pretty. And the Illinois-hating in Wisconsin is really provincial and stupid. It is true that Chicago has a lot more to offer than the other cities of the Midwest--but you don't need to kick a dying horse. Places like Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, and Cleveland need all of the help they can get. These cities are slowing improving and "gentrifying", but meaninful improvement won't be possible without changing the larger economic conditions in the Midwest. And this would strenghten Chicago AND the rust belt cities, since Chicago is the de facto capital of the region. What's good for the rust belt is good for Chicago.
Excellent post. Yes, Chicagos economy is very more tied the farms and factories of the midwest than it realizes sometimes.
Feeling like I'm from a large region is a way I like to think of things. The idea of "being from Chicago" makes me feel claustrophobic, whereas "being from the midwest" makes me feel like I got a wide open world to learn about."
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