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I prefer CSA overall. The SF Bay Area is clearly the number 4 sized city/area in the country and the MSA grossly undersizes it.
DC/Baltimore is unique. It is not comparable to DFW, MSP or SF/San Jose. I simply consider each a separate CSA. Although that would make DFW larger than DC. Maybe some of you on here whose been to both can elaborate in which area/city feels relatively larger. Considering their both designed differently.
Not at all.....D.C. and. Baltimore are different and feel separate... each has its own area of influence....
True true... but I think its cohesive enough economically and infrastructurally. They do share some significant demographic traits too. There's a ton of recreational travel from Bmore to DC and back.
My issue with CSA is the needless rural hinterland extending well beyond any city. If two legitimate cities are connected like DC-Bmore or Boston-Providence the area between them being consistently suburban and developed, that's worth of CSA but the extending into West Virginia or Northern New Hampshire just seem absurd.
That doesn't matter. Area is consistently developed, both share a major airport, and are starting to share more and more suburbs. It's like saying Fort Worth and Dallas aren't a cohesive built up area because the cultures are different.
Yea I don't think you can have Baltimore-Washington International Airport right off Baltimore-Washington Parkway and say CSA isn't a good measure of your level of interconnectedness.
That MARC really ties you together and in the past for a second, like 2000, yall had identical demographics in your core cities.
As an outsider having lived in both MSA no doubt they are different-none whatsoever. But it's so consistently developed it's eerie. Going from Crofton to Bowie is so subtle. You're never really thinking about your leaving the DC Area and going into the Baltimore one. Same with North Laurel.
I prefer CSA overall. The SF Bay Area is clearly the number 4 sized city/area in the country and the MSA grossly undersizes it.
DC/Baltimore is unique. It is not comparable to DFW, MSP or SF/San Jose. I simply consider each a separate CSA. Although that would make DFW larger than DC. Maybe some of you on here whose been to both can elaborate in which area/city feels relatively larger. Considering their both designed differently.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanQuest
I prefer CSA overall. The SF Bay Area is clearly the number 4 sized city/area in the country and the MSA grossly undersizes it.
DC/Baltimore is unique. It is not comparable to DFW, MSP or SF/San Jose. I simply consider each a separate CSA. Although that would make DFW larger than DC. Maybe some of you on here whose been to both can elaborate in which area/city feels relatively larger. Considering their both designed differently.
Feel is pretty subjective, but I guess the question is which MSA's feel larger or CSA, or which can you not tell the difference of the place being an MSA or CSA.
The Bay area feels like one large interconnected urban region ,so it has the largest uniform feel even though DC-Baltimore has the higher population total.
Fort-Worth isn't bigger than Baltimore's MSA, so the DFW region doesn't feel more "populated" than DC-Baltimore (and it isn't about 1.8 million less). However, the DFW region is ONE MSA and Fort-Worth-Dallas have a more uniform development pattern. Fort Worth makes up a separate Metropolitan Division rather than separate MSA. So yes you could make out DFW to be larger than "DC" MSA, but I would not make it out to be larger in feel (population wise) than DC-Baltimore-NOVA CSA. DFW's actually a less dense population sphere, but feels more uniform in pattern.
What separates DC-Baltimore from any CSA in the country is the ability to be one inter-connected region while retaining both individual spheres of influence with two top 20 MSA's. There's really no US examples to compare honestly.
Last edited by the resident09; 07-22-2021 at 05:56 AM..
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Originally Posted by AeternaII
I also believe Washington DC/Baltimore is another example where CSA is more appropriate.
I think both are appropriate, and for that reason I do not think the two will ever combine MSA.
I think you could never take Baltimore's inner core with it's own natural grown inner beltway and suburbs and add to DC's metro total population.
However the two metros have essentially blurred into one double-headed region like the Bay or DFW by now. It's just at a CSA level of intesnity, not an MSA level like Dallas.
The fact is that DC's metro area spills over into Baltimore's without interruption. The border line by technicality of where the MSA's split, is not where you see changes in the two metro areas. You only get a different feel about 10 miles out from Baltimore City. Otherwise you're surrounded by suburbia in all directions with little recognizable differences. The point about Crofton/Bowie is spot on, most people don't even realize Crofton is outside of Prince George's County (DC MSA).
DC/Baltimore feels more populated in general to me but that's probably due to the densities of the cities. Some parts of Maryland feel start to feel more almost semi-rural once you get around Burtonsville in between the gap between DC and Baltimore. Dallas-Fort Worth seems to have more populated larger suburbs.
I think both are appropriate, and for that reason I do not think the two will ever combine MSA.
I think you could never take Baltimore's inner core with it's own natural grown inner beltway and suburbs and add to DC's metro total population.
However the two metros have essentially blurred into one double-headed region like the Bay or DFW by now. It's just at a CSA level of intesnity, not an MSA level like Dallas.
The fact is that DC's metro area spills over into Baltimore's without interruption. The border line by technicality of where the MSA's split, is not where you see changes in the two metro areas. You only get a different feel about 10 miles out from Baltimore City. Otherwise you're surrounded by suburbia in all directions with little recognizable differences. The point about Crofton/Bowie is spot on, most people don't even realize Crofton is outside of Prince George's County (DC MSA).
This.
I also actually feel the Baltimore area seems way more connected than other areas in the DC-Arlington-Alexandria. For example, the portions in West Virginia or other rural areas.
It blends together great, the connectivity (MARC train, airport, suburbs, etc). The area between Baltimore & Washington all seems the same excluding the actual cities of Baltimore & Washington. They both definitely feel very distinct as cities.
I think like most things, CSA & MSA are data points. Each can be better depending on what you want to measure. I think MSA overall is better for DC than CSA, whereas for an area like Raleigh-Durham the CSA makes more sense.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganderTexan
DC/Baltimore feels more populated in general to me but that's probably due to the densities of the cities. Some parts of Maryland feel start to feel more almost semi-rural once you get around Burtonsville in between the gap between DC and Baltimore. Dallas-Fort Worth seems to have more populated larger suburbs.
I think too it's more than what meets the eye, and whether there are development gaps or not. Baltimore and Washington's metro areas function like a big mega region (with their own distinctions). They aren't on some island out to their lonesome. 24/7/365 there is interactivity among people living throughout the region. Whether it's landing at the regions airports, urban amenities, shopping malls, casinos, MARC, or even those enjoying the other city's downtown on occasion, it really just depends on the individual person. You can live in one area that is completely sufficient and not travel anywhere, or you can every day traverse the two MSA's. Working in Arlington I personally know at least three people who commute from inside the Baltimore beltway every day, prior to the pandemic.
Last edited by the resident09; 07-22-2021 at 08:44 AM..
Why is everyone acting like The Bay Area is Just SF and SJ.
The Bay Area is NOT this uniform, 2 principle Area metro of 9M plus people.
Like all Statistical areas the Bay has its fluff. And some areas included in the CSA I would hardly refer to as Bay Area.
But the area is not just SF and SJ. Oakland still maintains enough culture and identity to be its own principle city and metro division.
Yes, I believe the area is more than the 5M or so people in the MSA but it is also not the almost 10M CSA. Realistically the area is about 7.5M.
Maybe the next census realignment will pull in SJ to the MSA and make the area more representative, but the CSA does bring in a lot of fluff just like everywhere else.
I agree with everyone that the MSA doesn't do the area justice, but unlike everyone I think the CSA does it too much justice. I am not a fan of CSAs as the best measure of a city, and just because MSA fails the Bay Area doesn't automatically make the Bay Area an exception to that opinion.
Maybe a new category is needed. Something that factors in urban areas and the greater region. Like a combined urban area.
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