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I don't think any CSA has an equivalent to Baltimore.
All other CSAs comprise of either a major metro and nearby smaller metros ( as is the case of NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Seattle etc) or they comprise of a multiple large MSAs or metro division ( as is the case of Baltimore and Washington, San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose, Dallas Fort Worth, Miami- Fort Lauderdale, Minneapolis St Paul).
The thing that sets Baltimore apart from other CSAs with multiple large metro areas is that Baltimore is the only city from all of them that is playing second fiddle to a city that didn't even exist when Baltimore was already a major city.
Yeah you can find me examples going way back when St Paul might have been bigger than Minneapolis or whatever, but all those other cities were cities that grew up together, they blended together...
Baltimore and DC didn't grow up together.
Baltimore was a major city long before they were thinking of where to build DC. And After DC remained a major city 2 and a half centuries later.
All the other cities have long had a strongly intertwined economy that played off each other and allowed them to grow together. Since Baltimore was already major and the synergy of the joint suburbs more recent, it's just hard to not see Baltimore as it's own thing.
That's just not true tho Kodeblue, your first off mistaken. All of South Florida is not one media market, as well as all the 9.7 million CSA of the Bay Area isn't one media market either. What does media market have anything to do with what is being discussed here? I think you're beef with this comparison has reached a point of being baseless. Go check out the definition of what makes up a Combined Statistical Area and what makes up a Metropolitan Statistical Area is. Baltimore has an MSA, Washington has an MSA, they don't have a combined MSA. SF has an MSA, SJ has an MSA, they don't have a combined MSA. But where these regions have in common is more than meeting the threshold to be considered a mega-region of TWO or more metros/city cores. There labor markets DO overlap, that's what makes a CSA, not the media market. Philadelphia's media market is 4th in the nation, it's metro is 7th soon to be 8th in total population. So your points aren't connecting.
You guys are speaking on theories and riddles instead of facts. What is factual that you cannot unprove is the Washington-Baltimore region is connected more than enough to be one combined entity, which is why more than one official population metric combines them. Do you not grasp this? Not only the US Census provides a metric of them together.
It's like grandest wish to never live to see a day of Washington DC and Baltimore combined at any level. Pretty hilarious if you ask me.
Don't put any arguments on me that I haven't made, if so, post the exact quote when I said that they aren't in the same CSA. I said that they do not function as a single region. Better yet, I'll treat them as one single entity. Deal?
Is there another reason for any CSA other than 15-25% cross commuting between certain counties?
Well Manchester's airport is officially the "Manchester-Boston Regional Airport", and Boston's commuter rail will take you directly from South Station to T.F.Green.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atadytic19
I don't think any CSA has an equivalent to Baltimore.
All other CSAs comprise of either a major metro and nearby smaller metros ( as is the case of NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Seattle etc) or they comprise of a multiple large MSAs or metro division ( as is the case of Baltimore and Washington, San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose, Dallas Fort Worth, Miami- Fort Lauderdale, Minneapolis St Paul).
The thing that sets Baltimore apart from other CSAs with multiple large metro areas is that Baltimore is the only city from all of them that is playing second fiddle to a city that didn't even exist when Baltimore was already a major city.
Yeah you can find me examples going way back when St Paul might have been bigger than Minneapolis or whatever, but all those other cities were cities that grew up together, they blended together...
Baltimore and DC didn't grow up together.
Baltimore was a major city long before they were thinking of where to build DC. And After DC remained a major city 2 and a half centuries later.
All the other cities have long had a strongly intertwined economy that played off each other and allowed them to grow together. Since Baltimore was already major and the synergy of the joint suburbs more recent, it's just hard to not see Baltimore as it's own thing.
Well said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue
Are Miami and Ft Lauderdale the same media market?
Baltimore and Washington are not
While I generally agree that DC and Baltimore are at odds more than any other intra-CSA cities, my Baltimore relatives are all Capitals fans.
I don't think any CSA has an equivalent to Baltimore.
All other CSAs comprise of either a major metro and nearby smaller metros ( as is the case of NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Seattle etc) or they comprise of a multiple large MSAs or metro division ( as is the case of Baltimore and Washington, San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose, Dallas Fort Worth, Miami- Fort Lauderdale, Minneapolis St Paul).
The thing that sets Baltimore apart from other CSAs with multiple large metro areas is that Baltimore is the only city from all of them that is playing second fiddle to a city that didn't even exist when Baltimore was already a major city.
Yeah you can find me examples going way back when St Paul might have been bigger than Minneapolis or whatever, but all those other cities were cities that grew up together, they blended together...
Baltimore and DC didn't grow up together.
Baltimore was a major city long before they were thinking of where to build DC. And After DC remained a major city 2 and a half centuries later.
All the other cities have long had a strongly intertwined economy that played off each other and allowed them to grow together. Since Baltimore was already major and the synergy of the joint suburbs more recent, it's just hard to not see Baltimore as it's own thing.
This has always been my point. Also, I always said the "merge" in no way benefits Baltimore on a national scale. For all intents and purposes, Baltimore will become Newark, Long Beach, Oakland, Tacoma, Ft. Lauderdale.. etc.
Well Manchester's airport is officially the "Manchester-Boston Regional Airport", and Boston's commuter rail will take you directly from South Station to T.F.Green.
Well said.
While I generally agree that DC and Baltimore are at odds more than any other intra-CSA cities, my Baltimore relatives are all Capitals fans.
This has always been my point. Also, I always said the "merge" in no way benefits Baltimore on a national scale. For all intents and purposes, Baltimore will become Newark, Long Beach, Oakland, Tacoma, Ft. Lauderdale.. etc.
People are already talking like Baltimore is a burb of DC.
You hear things like DC will pass Chicago soon, or SF is bigger than Atlanta. You hear those things on here all the time. I have never subscribed to that terminology.
The guy's just making a case against himself in reverse. A media market has 0 to do with being a Combined Statistical Area, 0. And like you said the radio markets are merged, so that's false you can get Baltimore radio in Virginia. Washington's media market expands into Howard and Anne Arundel counties, so again baseless information. That have nothing to do with this discussion.
A TV market has nothing to do with MSA or CSA, but I'll argue it and local newspaper coverage, both until the internet became mainstream in the early 2000s, were the biggest factors in what was perceived "local" and what was an "out of town" place.
So from that standpoint, if people from Baltimore got their news and it was separate from what the people in D.C. were getting, then yeah. You can argue they are two totally different areas even though only 40 miles a part.
Of course, im guessing the sprawl between them kind of coincided with the internet taking over so it has blurred that line over the past 20 years. Add in a lot of that sprawl included a sizable amount of people who moved in from out of the region/country over the past 20 years and can see why to them, what's the difference? It's just two big cities within one arger overall region.
But to someone like say Kode Blue (Im assuming you have long lineage in Baltimore), DC might as well be Philadelphia. That's probably true for most longtime Baltimore people.
I keep going back to Northeast Ohio because its where I'm most familiar. But im starting to see that the Baltimore-DC relationship is probably more similar (on a larger scale) as Cleveland is to Youngstown. Unlike Akron and Canton (which yes they do have their own identities) have been in the Cleveland media sphere since TV markets came about, Youngstown has its own TV market so Cleveland media never gave any attention to Youngstown and Youngstown media was Youngstown-Warren specific. So despite similar proximity between Cleveland and Canton as there is between Cleveland and Youngstown, Canton feels very much apart of the larger Cleveland Akron-Canton overall area where Youngstown might as well be Erie or Pittsburgh.
The guy's just making a case against himself in reverse. A media market has 0 to do with being a Combined Statistical Area, 0. And like you said the radio markets are merged, so that's false you can get Baltimore radio in Virginia. Washington's media market expands into Howard and Anne Arundel counties, so again baseless information. That have nothing to do with this discussion.
Radio market is a horrible example. I can pick up Detroit and Columbus FM stations from Cleveland/Akron area (especially on a clear night). WTAM, Cleveland's AM news station (granted have not listened to it in 10 years) used to have a slogan that their signal went out to "38 states and half of Canada." I'm pretty sure if I went through the AM dial i could pick up similar sized frequencies from all over the country
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