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View Poll Results: CSA or MSA?
CSA is a better measure of "metro area" 74 30.71%
MSA is a better measure of "metro area" 167 69.29%
Voters: 241. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-09-2021, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Northeast states
14,053 posts, read 13,926,968 times
Reputation: 5198

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Miami Overtakes JFK & LAX To Become Busiest International Airport In 2021

Miami is now the busiest international airport in the country.

“Between January and June 2021, there were more international passengers at Miami International Airport than any other U.S. airport. Before the pandemic, MIA ranked third for international passengers, behind JFK and LAX.”

“Still, international passenger traffic at MIA is down significantly in 2021, with just over 5 million international passengers during the first six months of the year, compared to 11.4 million during the same period in 2019.“

“International passengers normally account for 47% of total traffic at MIA. Through the first six months it was down to 32% of traffic.”

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/bus...#storylink=cpy
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Old 08-09-2021, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
7,010 posts, read 11,971,589 times
Reputation: 5813
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPt111 View Post
Miami Overtakes JFK & LAX To Become Busiest International Airport In 2021

Miami is now the busiest international airport in the country.

“Between January and June 2021, there were more international passengers at Miami International Airport than any other U.S. airport. Before the pandemic, MIA ranked third for international passengers, behind JFK and LAX.”

“Still, international passenger traffic at MIA is down significantly in 2021, with just over 5 million international passengers during the first six months of the year, compared to 11.4 million during the same period in 2019.“

“International passengers normally account for 47% of total traffic at MIA. Through the first six months it was down to 32% of traffic.”

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/bus...#storylink=cpy
That won't last. It will return to New York post pandemic
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Old 08-12-2021, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Coastal Connecticut
809 posts, read 468,497 times
Reputation: 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixthCoordinate View Post
Very interesting topic. I think SF Bay Area is unique here -- the CSA covers a lot that is far beyond the Bay Area, but the SF-OAK-Hayward MSA is too small and leaves out half of the Bay Area. So for SF, I think the Bay Area (urban area) is the best solution, which is different from both the MSA and the CSA.
Exactly - I'll add the New York Tri-State Area and Philly to this as well. All the MSAs play a role in funneling people, services, and goods to the primary metro and vice versa. Also - there tends to be a shared culture (e.g. tri-state culture, bay area) that goes beyond MSA boundaries. It also helps that in NYC especially, both local and suburban rail networks are pretty extensive compared to just about all US urban areas.

For example, Gov. Cuomo's resignation led local news both in NYC and CT. As for the case of most of Western half of CT (Greenwich to New Haven generally speaking), we receive both NYC and CT (the entire state is just about one media market) local stations.

Last edited by norcal2k19; 08-12-2021 at 08:26 PM..
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Old 08-12-2021, 11:38 PM
 
Location: Katy,Texas
6,470 posts, read 4,070,030 times
Reputation: 4522
I don’t understand while people say, that D.C Baltimore isn’t all that far from DFW. Downtown to Downtown, Dallas to Fort Worth is 32 miles. D.C to Baltimore is 38.6, not that far off.

The edge of Fort Worth to the edge of Dallas is roughly 10 miles. D.C to Baltimore is still over 30 miles.

Now Fort Worth is massive and pokes out towards Dallas to get Airport real estate. But even from the core of Fort Worth all you have to do is drive through Arlington and Grand Prairie to get to Dallas.
Arlington by itself is denser and has more people than Howard County. Now Maryland cities aren’t massive but all it takes is 5 minutes in Arlington to know that DFW is far more connected than DC-Baltimore currently is. The NE Tarrant county region is even more obvious. It’s so connected that Denton County which is all cardinally closer to Fort Worth except a slim portion of the eastern part of the county is in the Dallas Metropolitan Division.

It’s not a shared suburb but the fact that Arlington is an inner suburb as well as Grand Prairie. Both have been built out of their central portions for nearly 30-40 years and are the only two areas directly in the two cities. The richest Dallas suburbs, all in NE Tarrant County are all there. The most iconic burbs of Dallas, like Plano and Irving literally border Fort Worth suburbs.
The question isnt, does Columbia straddle the line with decent amount of commuters to both cities. But the question should be, does Dundalk feel like Dallas? Does Towson feel like Dallas. Keller definitely feels like Dallas. H-E-B area feels like Dallas. Grapevine feels like Dallas and all the communities along it. Mansfield feels like Dallas.

All of these places are on the Fort Worth side of the MSA. All of them are generally close to Downtown Fort Worth than Dallas.
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Old 08-13-2021, 04:14 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
14,166 posts, read 9,058,487 times
Reputation: 10506
Quote:
Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare View Post
I don’t understand while people say, that D.C Baltimore isn’t all that far from DFW. Downtown to Downtown, Dallas to Fort Worth is 32 miles. D.C to Baltimore is 38.6, not that far off.

The edge of Fort Worth to the edge of Dallas is roughly 10 miles. D.C to Baltimore is still over 30 miles.

Now Fort Worth is massive and pokes out towards Dallas to get Airport real estate. But even from the core of Fort Worth all you have to do is drive through Arlington and Grand Prairie to get to Dallas.
Arlington by itself is denser and has more people than Howard County. Now Maryland cities aren’t massive but all it takes is 5 minutes in Arlington to know that DFW is far more connected than DC-Baltimore currently is. The NE Tarrant county region is even more obvious. It’s so connected that Denton County which is all cardinally closer to Fort Worth except a slim portion of the eastern part of the county is in the Dallas Metropolitan Division.

It’s not a shared suburb but the fact that Arlington is an inner suburb as well as Grand Prairie. Both have been built out of their central portions for nearly 30-40 years and are the only two areas directly in the two cities. The richest Dallas suburbs, all in NE Tarrant County are all there. The most iconic burbs of Dallas, like Plano and Irving literally border Fort Worth suburbs.
The question isnt, does Columbia straddle the line with decent amount of commuters to both cities. But the question should be, does Dundalk feel like Dallas? Does Towson feel like Dallas. Keller definitely feels like Dallas. H-E-B area feels like Dallas. Grapevine feels like Dallas and all the communities along it. Mansfield feels like Dallas.

All of these places are on the Fort Worth side of the MSA. All of them are generally close to Downtown Fort Worth than Dallas.
Don't you mean "Washington" in that sentence, since you're trying to compare communities closer to Fort Worth with some that are closer to Baltimore?

And no, they don't feel like they're part of metropolitan Washington.

I think part of the difference stems from the fact that Dallas and Fort Worth grew roughly in tandem, while Baltimore was undisputedly the larger urban center up until 1970 or so, and Washington's transformation from overgrown town into metropolis didn't really begin in earnest until World War I — and World War II put it into overdrive.
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Old 08-13-2021, 05:28 AM
 
Location: Katy,Texas
6,470 posts, read 4,070,030 times
Reputation: 4522
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
Don't you mean "Washington" in that sentence, since you're trying to compare communities closer to Fort Worth with some that are closer to Baltimore?

And no, they don't feel like they're part of metropolitan Washington.

I think part of the difference stems from the fact that Dallas and Fort Worth grew roughly in tandem, while Baltimore was undisputedly the larger urban center up until 1970 or so, and Washington's transformation from overgrown town into metropolis didn't really begin in earnest until World War I — and World War II put it into overdrive.
Yeah, I meant Washington.
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Old 08-13-2021, 08:59 AM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare View Post
I don’t understand while people say, that D.C Baltimore isn’t all that far from DFW. Downtown to Downtown, Dallas to Fort Worth is 32 miles. D.C to Baltimore is 38.6, not that far off.

The edge of Fort Worth to the edge of Dallas is roughly 10 miles. D.C to Baltimore is still over 30 miles.

Now Fort Worth is massive and pokes out towards Dallas to get Airport real estate. But even from the core of Fort Worth all you have to do is drive through Arlington and Grand Prairie to get to Dallas.
Arlington by itself is denser and has more people than Howard County. Now Maryland cities aren’t massive but all it takes is 5 minutes in Arlington to know that DFW is far more connected than DC-Baltimore currently is. The NE Tarrant county region is even more obvious. It’s so connected that Denton County which is all cardinally closer to Fort Worth except a slim portion of the eastern part of the county is in the Dallas Metropolitan Division.

It’s not a shared suburb but the fact that Arlington is an inner suburb as well as Grand Prairie. Both have been built out of their central portions for nearly 30-40 years and are the only two areas directly in the two cities. The richest Dallas suburbs, all in NE Tarrant County are all there. The most iconic burbs of Dallas, like Plano and Irving literally border Fort Worth suburbs.
The question isnt, does Columbia straddle the line with decent amount of commuters to both cities. But the question should be, does Dundalk feel like Dallas? Does Towson feel like Dallas. Keller definitely feels like Dallas. H-E-B area feels like Dallas. Grapevine feels like Dallas and all the communities along it. Mansfield feels like Dallas.

All of these places are on the Fort Worth side of the MSA. All of them are generally close to Downtown Fort Worth than Dallas.
DC and Baltimore aren't one MSA which is the difference. Because the two are very large strong central sphere's of influence, and each individually has a dense urban tier surrounding the cities. City proper is fine, but the real "in between" area begins outside the two beltways of 495/695. The two beltways are 18 miles apart, and what's left between is mid-level density (at best) suburbia. It's not about Dundalk feeling like a DC suburb, or Towson feeling like NOVA, because overall the population trends don't gravitate that way even though there is cross-MSA commuting. Like I said those represent core Baltimore nodes that are not a part of DC MSA.

Take a look at population density in between 495/DC Beltway and 695/Baltimore Beltway by Census tracts between DC-Baltimore vs DFW area in between. The DC-Baltimore area (between the Beltways) has uninterrupted population density, but it's way more sprawled out, and in less of a uniform layout like DFW. There's also more broken up space due to a huge agriculture refuge on the MSA line, as well as BWI airport which has basically 0 population.

https://mtgis-portal.geo.census.gov/...ed2b2fd7ff6eb7

DC-Baltimore is a legit CSA region of two MSA's with lots of connection but it's not a single spherical metro. In part because of where the cities are located and how they began to develop.
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Old 08-15-2021, 01:46 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,982 posts, read 2,088,930 times
Reputation: 2185
Quote:
Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare View Post
The most iconic burbs of Dallas, like Plano and Irving literally border Fort Worth suburbs.
Are you counting Carrollton or The Colony as Fort Worth suburbs?
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Old 09-18-2021, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Sandy Springs, GA
729 posts, read 1,300,608 times
Reputation: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5 View Post
Neither. CSA's are generally too big and cover too wide of an area. Who in Toccoa GA says they live in "Atlanta"? Toccoa is 90 miles away. Toccoa is closer to Greenville than Atlanta and is in the Greenville media market...yet its in Atlanta's CSA?

Plus not every MSA is a CSA, which makes it feel inaccurate. How can you leave Tampa, Charleston, San Antonio, Austin, Honolulu, San Diego, etc out. How are these not CSA's to begin with?

That's also the problem with MSAs. Too many obvious cities are left out of the region they should be in. Sarasota and Lakeland should be with Tampa, Raleigh and Durham should be together, Greenville and Spartanburg should be together, Ann Arbor should be with the Detroit, Boulder should be with Denver, Daphne should be with Mobile, honestly the Bay Area should be one thing, Macon and Warner Robins should be together, etc. Atlanta and DFW seem excessively massive. Its too much of an emphasis on commuting, which still doesn't feel completely accurate.

IMO the criteria should be more of a mix of TV markets and urban area, with commuting patterns and general culture. Lakeland may have enough jobs to be considered its own MSA, but its in Tampa's media market and is culturally apart of Tampa. Downtown Lakeland is 6 miles from the county line. Raleigh and Durham are so intertwined you can't magically tell where Raleigh ends and Durham begins. The Triangle is the Triangle. Same with Greenville and Spartanburg. Hell they even share a city (Greer). UM students never go to Detroit and UC students to Denver?
Give it 10-20 years. Tampa/Lakeland/Orlando will be a CSA. Lakeland is in both the Tampa/Orlando media markets and has been that way for decades.
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