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3.3 people per household? In these expensive dwellings?
ummmm ok
So you're trying to tell me Avalon Bay at First and M formerly Archstone at First and M doesn't have 1,000 people living there with 469 units. Bajan, please tell this guy I know what I'm talking about.
So you're trying to tell me Avalon Bay at First and M formerly Archstone at First and M doesn't have 1,000 people living there with 469 units. Bajan, please tell this guy I know what I'm talking about.
3.3 people is a lot of people per household, particularly considering that three bedroom units are rare in DC. You might get 3.3 people as an average household size for some rowhouse neighborhoods, but that sounds a tad high for luxury apartment buildings.
So you're trying to tell me Avalon Bay at First and M formerly Archstone at First and M doesn't have 1,000 people living there with 469 units. Bajan, please tell this guy I know what I'm talking about.
So that is 2.1 people per household - that might make sense - not 3.3
the DC average BTW is 2.17 (and its not apts driving this number up - its actually the SFHs, rows and others that include more families that are)
Most three bedroom units will have three occupants, but a lot of times two people will rent a 3BR for the extra storage space. And some people will individually rent a 2BR for the same reason. If you can afford it, why not?
I grew up in Jacksonville, FL. It's around 2.73 per owner-occupied household and 2.46 per renter-occupied household in Duval County. So I would imagine DC's HH size is even smaller.
They just put up a building with 754 units in a gentrifying area of SF...designed to attract techie renters, high income renters, etc. The city and the developers believe it will house 1,000 people, and it has a mix of Studios, Ones, Twos, and maybeeee a few Threes (though I'm not sure).
Anyway, long story short, when you're building high-end rental housing for upwardly mobile young professionals who live in dense, expensive cities, the most you can really expect to get in an avg household size is ~1.5. So at best, it will take 20,000 new units to produce 30,000 net new residents. Over time, you have to consider movement from older stock to the newer stock, and over time you have to consider the older stock being demolished to make way for the newer stock. Not to mention, older stock likely has a higher percentage of larger and lower income families or larger renter groups per unit. I find it's more likely the case a renting family is in older, less expensive rentals. Lower income professionals who don't pull in 6 figures and can't afford the new fancy stuff roommate up quite a bit and live in older units. So HH size typically diminishes with newer product and gentrification. In reality, it probably takes a lot more than 20,000 new units to get 30,000 net new people.
I would actually guess the average One BR occupancy average is closer to 1.3, two bedroom is closer to 2.1, 3BR closer to 2.4/5 per
and would estimate that 469 units would generate closer to 650-700 people actually (assuming split among 1, 2, and 3BR apts)
your numbers dont make any sense to me actually
Almost none of the new one bedroom Class A buildings have one person living in them. People living in new Class A buildings in D.C. either get a two bedroom with a roommate or move into a studio. Many three bedrooms have 5 people living in them. D.C. is just too expensive compared to other cities except NYC etc. Over the next 20 years as only class A buildings get built, what do you expect. Ask anybody in the new high-rise world living in D.C. They're the only ones who will be able to tell you this. People in the row house neighborhoods are practically a different city.
Either way, who really cares. The numbers will rise no matter what they end up at.
Most three bedroom units will have three occupants, but a lot of times two people will rent a 3BR for the extra storage space. And some people will individually rent a 2BR for the same reason. If you can afford it, why not?
Not in D.C. in new buildings. Almost every new Class A building in D.C. is a dorm room experience. Do you know anybody who lives in these new neighborhoods? Ask them. Young students, and young boyfriends and girlfriends.
Almost none of the new one bedroom Class A buildings have one person living in them. People living in new Class A buildings in D.C. either get a two bedroom with a roommate or move into a studio. Many three bedrooms have 5 people living in them. D.C. is just too expensive compared to other cities except NYC etc. Over the next 20 years as only class A buildings get built, what do you expect. Ask anybody in the new high-rise world living in D.C. They're the only ones who will be able to tell you this. People in the row house neighborhoods are practically a different city.
Either way, who really cares. The numbers will rise no matter what they end up at.
Ehhh...SF is even more expensive. The new apartments are for wealthy young people (techies, finance sector, etc). Singles move into studios, Ones, and occasionally Twos if they can afford it (convert 2nd bedroom into office). Two roommates for Twos and Threes, but never two roommates for a 1BR or studio.
Now the older stock is totally different. That's where you'll find more people working to live and affording what they can, even if that means 5 roommates to a 3 BR, etc etc.
I'm sure DC is not too different from SF It's certainly not as expensive, and the pay may even be better on average for young professionals, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are more people living in more space in DC than SF. Average apartment size in SF is already smaller than in DC, and rents are also higher in total amount, and certainly $/SF.
Not in D.C. in new buildings. Almost every new Class A building in D.C. is a dorm room experience. Do you know anybody who lives in these new neighborhoods? Ask them. Young students, and young boyfriends and girlfriends.
My cousin. LoL At least 5-8 friends from college.
DC is not nearly as cramped as SF or NYC, and it's still not really on the same level of expensive. The apartments are generally nicer and more spacious, it's still easy to find deals, and people get paid WELL in DC. So I don't buy your arguments.
Not in D.C. in new buildings. Almost every new building Class A building in D.C. is a dorm room experience. Do you know anybody who lives in these new neighborhoods? Ask them. Young students, and young boyfriends and girlfriends.
Uh, yeah, I don't know about that. But if you can provide data to back up your point, then I suppose all of us will have no choice but to capitulate.
Archstone is top of the line luxury. I can't see a whole bunch of young, cash-strapped professionals moving into those buildings. Rowhouses in Woodley Park and Shaw exist for that demographic. Archstone buildings are generally for ballers.
Curious...what's the average household size on the Upper West Side?
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It's certainly not as expensive, and the pay may even be better on average for young professionals, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are more people living in more space in DC than SF. Average apartment size in SF is already smaller than in DC, and rents are also higher in total amount, and certainly $/SF.
