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Yeah right, because there are black people in both?! South Dallas is not the south.
No, because the cultures are similar. I most certainly believe that South Dallas is the South, and I'm sure most of the residents would proudly claim, but let's hear why you feel otherwise.
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Originally Posted by TexasTwoFace
I voted Florida because of the panhandle and Jacksonville. I'm a Texan and I do not self identify as being southern, seeing as beef is king here not pork, Dr Pepper not coke, and this is Big 12 country not SEC.
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Originally Posted by slo1318
Good points, Texas is definitely a tweener, between east/west.
Just as I had assumed, a lot of Texans have a very closed-minded view of what "The South" is. Texas is this one monolithic entity and then to the east of us there's just a big monotonous blob where everything is the same until you get to the Atlantic Coast. I almost never have these types of discussions in my hometown, though. Houstonians seem to be more well traveled than people in the rest of the state.
As a native Texan, I eat way more pork barbecue than I do beef, and I'm pretty sure that the number of Coca Colas I've consumed in my life outnumbers the Dr Peppers. Here's a nice Coke mural in Nacogdoches: Texas Escapes - Nacogdoches
Agreed here. If only for the fact that North Florida IS the deep south while east Texas is on it's periphery.
I agree with this, and not so much Nairobi's point. His point of pockets of southern culture in Texas, is not the same as northern Florida, which like you said is the deep south. Nairobis point about Texas not being monolithic or static in culture is true, its a mix like most places, but I disagree on it being southern, if anything Texas is the ultimate independent. People here particularly natives identify as Texan, not southern. I dont know one person who would disagree with that, except a couple on here I guess.
It's an important part of it, but that's not all I'm considering.
It certainly is part, but I would contend that if you are black (and I dont know), then it would sway your opinion more if you believe that to be the case. If you are from the deep south even Louisiana and moved to Houston then that would greatly sway you into believing that as well...
I agree with this, and not so much Nairobi's point. His point of pockets of southern culture in Texas, is not the same as northern Florida, which like you said is the deep south. Nairobis point about Texas not being monolithic or static in culture is true, its a mix like most places, but I disagree on it being southern, if anything Texas is the ultimate independent. People here particularly natives identify as Texan, not southern. I dont know one person who would disagree with that, except a couple on here I guess.
I'm still waiting to hear some specific examples. You keep making these bold statements about what is and isn't the South or why this or that place doesn't qualify, but you're not saying why. This is about the second time you've ignored my request for clarification.
What universally southern qualities am I going to find in North Florida that I will not find in East Texas?
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Originally Posted by slo1318
It certainly is part, but I would contend that if you are black (and I dont know), then it would sway your opinion more if you believe that to be the case. If you are from the deep south even Louisiana and moved to Houston then that would greatly sway you into believing that as well...
Being black has nothing to do with my ability to recognize Southern culture where it is clearly present. No one here is saying that a large black population automatically makes a place southern. If that were the case, we would be arguing that Chicago, Detroit, and Philadelphia are southern cities, which is clearly not the case. However, in the case of Houston and Dallas (cities that were both cotton towns), you have a large black population that is largely descended from the slaves and sharecroppers of their respective regions. Also, the present culture in these communities falls directly in line with the culture of southern cities from here to the Atlantic. Cover South Dallas in pine trees, and one might have a difficult time distinguishing between it and Birmingham. The black neighborhoods are often used as prime examples, since these neighborhoods have less transplants and have the least outside influence.
You're welcome to believe that Texas is not the South, but, as I've clearly shown, it is no inarguable fact. Hell, it's barely an opinion that someone could reasonably support. A state being unique isn't a valid reason to claim that it's not part of a larger region, especially when you have a city like Marshall, TX which is closer (in distance and culture) to the capital of Mississippi than the capital of Texas.
Louisiana is unique as they come, yet their southernness is rarely questioned, despite the fact your average New Orleanian is less typically southern than your average Texan; right down to the accent.
When it comes down to it, I think this is more about some Texans intentionally wanting to distance themselves from the South. Sorry, but it's not as simple as proclaiming "we're not the South". The culture and mannerisms speak for themselves.
And don't get me started (again) on the many misconceptions a lot of Texans have about the rest of the South. Several of them probably think of Atlanta as this city where they have sweet tea on tap, cotton grows in people's yards, Confederate flags don every porch, and Spanish moss drapes every tree.
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I almost never have these types of discussions in my hometown, though. Houstonians seem to be more well traveled than people in the rest of the state.