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*Vocal Banned left a scathing critique of Boston in this thread.
*You didn't agree with his critique and expressed such.
*Boston Shudra, who's been extremely defensive of critiques about Boston in this thread, joined you in expressing their disagreement with Vocal Banned.
*While you and Boston Shudra spent several posts going back and forth, trying to understand why Vocal Banned was so critical of Boston, you made the huge assumption that Vocal Banned qas calling the city "insular," which Boston Shundra ran with and doubled down on with their pretentious claim about Boston residents being "worldly."
To summarize, it wasn't Vocal Banned or any of the other Boston critics that claimed Boston is "insular" despite what btownboss4 claimed a few posts ago, but rather it was an unfounded conclusion you reached based on your interpretation of Vocal Banned's post.
Did I miss anything?
Last edited by citidata18; 07-11-2020 at 11:00 AM..
i don't know enough about Boston to get involved in the pissing contest, so I wont
overrated: Manhattan - sure Manhattan's cool and all, but tourists think that's all there is to NYC besides the airports and the Statue of Liberty, while Queens and the Bronx are both very cool places
really the only one I feel like is truly a bit overrated
underrated: Tampa - it never gets talked about. a beautiful area on the water
most cities receive the respect they deserve, especially on the East Coast
I tried to send you this in a reputation note, but it was too long:
There's another, more elaborate joke about a Boston Brahmin matron who agrees to visit her offspring in Iowa on her first trip outside the region. The kids, figuring she'd have lots to say about what she saw, asked her how she got to Iowa.
"Via Dedham," was her reply.
I suspect the worldly-wise Bostonians are either (a) transplants or (b) of more recent birth than these jokes.
To be fair, I think a lot of Bostonians that I know think of travel as international travel. I have a friend who’s been to Jordan and Bangladesh, but I don’t think she’s seen much of the country outside of New England and New York. Maybe NJ and eastern PA too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by citidata18
To summarize, it wasn't Vocal Banned or any of the other Boston critics that claimed Boston is "insular" despite what btownboss4 claimed a few posts ago, but rather it was an unfounded conclusion you reached based on your interpretation of Vocal Banned's post.
Don’t you think it’s a bad look to jump on the same boat as a poster whose name is “Vocal Banned”? There’s no “interpreting” that guy; he comes around every couple months or so, and always posts the same kind of thing.
Anyway, I wasn’t even expressing an opinion, just sharing my experience with people I know. I have family in the south and midwest, and they seem to leave the country less often than my family and friends here. A lot of it just boils down to the difference in flight cost. If I time it right, I can get a round trip flight to Dublin for under $300 (well maybe not right now). It could also be the sample size; my relatives in other parts of the country might not travel as much as their neighbors. I don’t know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by citidata18
*Boston Shudra, who's been extremely defensive of critiques about Boston in this thread, joined you in expressing their disagreement with Vocal Banned.
This thread is an example of me being casually defensive, not extremely. There are a few points I take issue with (e.g. weather, food, and diversity), but I can definitely see how people would find Boston overrated.
Last edited by Boston Shudra; 07-11-2020 at 10:54 AM..
...he comes around every couple months or so, and always posts the same kind of thing...
I can't comment on what Vocal Banned has done or said in the past. I can only comment on what has taken place in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Shudra
Anyway, I wasn’t even expressing an opinion, just sharing my experience with people I know. I have family in the south and midwest, and they seem to leave the country less often than my family and friends here. A lot of it just boils down to the difference in flight cost. If I time it right, I can get a round trip flight to Dublin for under $300 (well maybe not right now). It could also be the sample size; my relatives in other parts of the country might not travel as much as their neighbors. I don’t know...
That may well be your experience, but your post can easily be interpreted as a statement of fact and not an anecdote or opinion since you originally omitted that your comment was based on (the relatively few) people you've interacted with personally.
But that's besides the point. IMO, that comment didn't have any place in this thread because how worldly or well-traveled the people of Boston may or may not be should have no bearing on the validity of opinions that people outside of Boston express about the city.
There's another, more elaborate joke about a Boston Brahmin matron who agrees to visit her offspring in Iowa on her first trip outside the region. The kids, figuring she'd have lots to say about what she saw, asked her how she got to Iowa.
"Via Dedham," was her reply.
I suspect the worldly-wise Bostonians are either (a) transplants or (b) of more recent birth than these jokes.
These jokes go back to the 1920s or earlier. I remember them this way:[list][*]The Brahmin lady traveled to California. When asked about the route she replied "By way of Dedham," i.e., nothing between there and Calif worth mentioning.[*]At a social gathering a young woman is asked where she comes from. Answer: Iowa. Response: "Oh, in Boston we pronounce it 'Ohio'."
*Vocal Banned left a scathing critique of Boston in this thread.
*You didn't agree with his critique and expressed such.
*Boston Shudra, who's been extremely defensive of critiques about Boston in this thread, joined you in expressing their disagreement with Vocal Banned.
*While you and Boston Shudra spent several posts going back and forth, trying to understand why Vocal Banned was so critical of Boston, you made the huge assumption that Vocal Banned qas calling the city "insular," which Boston Shundra ran with and doubled down on with their pretentious claim about Boston residents being "worldly."
To summarize, it wasn't Vocal Banned or any of the other Boston critics that claimed Boston is "insular" despite what btownboss4 claimed a few posts ago, but rather it was an unfounded conclusion you reached based on your interpretation of Vocal Banned's post.
Did I miss anything?
I don't interpret what I wrote there as assuming anything on Vocal Banned's part. We were going back and forth on that whole "inferiority complex/superiority complex" thing, and my post with the term "insularity" in it was saying that Boston had neither of those. I then went on to cite examples of how Boston does consider itself superior to other American cities, which is not the same thing as having a superiority complex — Boston doesn't think it has anything it needs to compensate for.
IOW, that interpretation was mine entirely, and I own it. It may be off regarding contemporary Boston, as subsequent respondents have suggested, but the phrases and jokes were common enough that one of them made a very popular tourist exhibition.
I don't interpret what I wrote there as assuming anything on Vocal Banned's part. We were going back and forth on that whole "inferiority complex/superiority complex" thing, and my post with the term "insularity" in it was saying that Boston had neither of those.
But it was Vocal Banned's claim that Boston has an inferiority complex that led to the side bar conversation you describe. Why have that whole side bar conversation if you weren't trying to figure out what he meant by "inferiority complex?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
then went on to cite examples of how Boston does consider itself superior to other American cities, which is not the same thing as having a superiority complex - Boston doesn't think it has anything it needs to compensate for.
We will just agree to disagree here.
Having a superiority complex doesn't mean you have something to compensate for (you're confusing that with an inferiority complex). Rather, it means you have an exaggerated sense of self-worth (pretentiousness and arrogance). And frankly, some of the responses in this thread from Bostonites doesn't help to dispel that opinion some may have about the city having a superiority complex.
To be fair, I think a lot of Bostonians that I know think of travel as international travel. I have a friend who’s been to Jordan and Bangladesh, but I don’t think she’s seen much of the country outside of New England and New York. Maybe NJ and eastern PA too.
That's a very good point you raise there. And given that Boston's colleges, universities and biomedical research institutions attract a high percentage of educated foreigners with the means to travel, many of whom have probably become naturalized citizens, it shouldn't be much of a surprise that this would be the case.
By contrast, the Mexicans who make Philadelphia's restaurant kitchens work probably aren't going back to Puebla anytime soon, nor are the Vietnamese and Cambodian shopkeepers who have set up businesses in and around the Italian Market. I also doubt that the Russians who have settled in the Far Northeast will be going back to see the relatives in Moscow or St. Petersburg all that often either.
(The larger point I'm making here has to do with the class character of both migration and travel.)
Regarding travel, I'm your friend's opposite number: I've now seen every major region of the country except Alaska and Hawaii and have visited — that is, stopped somewhere for a period of time in as opposed to just traveled through — 40 of the 50 states (the ones I haven't visited: Mississippi, Oklahoma, Wisconsin, both Dakotas, Montana, Idaho, Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon. And I've passed through Mississippi and Oklahoma too.) But my international travel to date consists of two weekends in and around Toronto and an afternoon in Juárez. (Not for lack of trying, though: trips I was supposed to take to Paris and Osaka fell through. And I need to replace my passport already.)
Quote:
Anyway, I wasn’t even expressing an opinion, just sharing my experience with people I know. I have family in the south and midwest, and they seem to leave the country less often than my family and friends here. A lot of it just boils down to the difference in flight cost. If I time it right, I can get a round trip flight to Dublin for under $300 (well maybe not right now). It could also be the sample size; my relatives in other parts of the country might not travel as much as their neighbors. I don’t know.
If you live in one of the large cities in the interior, chances are that unless you're headed to a few international destinations, most likely in Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean, your trip abroad will take you to one of the following three cities first: New York, LA, Chicago. That may also explain the difference: traveling overseas is simpler from Boston or any other coastal city.
But it was Vocal Banned's claim that Boston has an inferiority complex that led to the side bar conversation you describe. Why have that whole side bar conversation if you weren't trying to figure out what he meant by "inferiority complex?"
We will just agree to disagree here.
Having a superiority complex doesn't mean you have something to compensate for (you're confusing that with an inferiority complex). Rather, it means you have an exaggerated sense of self-worth (pretentiousness and arrogance). And frankly, some of the responses in this thread from Bostonites doesn't help to dispel that opinion some may have about the city having a superiority complex.
According to the two Wikipedia articles on "inferiority complex" and "superiority complex", they're related. From the article on the latter:
Quote:
Alfred Adler was the first to use the term superiority complex and claimed that superiority complex came from the need to overcome an inferiority complex.[3] Throughout his works Adler intertwines the occurrence of an inferiority complex and a superiority complex to be cause and effect. He published one book that touched on these topics while alive, and another was published after his death. Only one of them was solely dedicated to his view on superiority complexes. The first was Understanding Human Nature (1927), which was originally information for lectures at The People's Institute of Vienna.[4] The main point of the book was to explain how progress in the three great problems of life would determine the judgement of a person. In explaining this Adler addresses his views on complexes. The second, Superiority and Social Interest: A Collection of Later Writings, was actually a collection of twenty one papers written by Adler. It was published in 1964 after Adler's death.[5]
Adler maintains the idea throughout his writing that superiority complexes show up as a result of inferiority complexes.[3] He states that those with an inferiority complex develop a superiority complex to overcome the difficulties presented by the former. In Adler's opinion, an individual will want to overcome or master a task when faced with it. He refers to this in his writing as striving for superiority[3] and claims that sound-minded individuals do not strive for personal superiority over others, rather for personal ambition and success through work. Adler's work states that those without mental health issues do not experience superiority complexes, but do strive for superiority by human nature.
(emphasis added)
I see no evidence that Boston perceives itself to be inadequate or having any inadequacy it needs to compensate for, hence my assertion that "it has neither."
I've been called arrogant myself (by someone else at Harvard, of all places), and I certainly don't see myself as having some inadequacy I need to compensate for. Thus I don't consider arrogance a mark of a superiority complex as defined here. It stands alone as a character trait and is probably more closely related to egotism.
So yeah, I guess we will have to agree to disagree here. But I did read up before posting.
I think I could adapt this for the city I moved to from Boston in 1983:
Philadelphia is a world leader in healthcare, biotech, and research
Philadelphia is one of the best urban cities America has to offer and is a must see for history buffs
Philadelphia has an increasingly diverse population, many of whom have a lot of pride for their area and some of whom show that love in a funny way
Philadelphia offers proximity to east coast amenities — major cities, coastline, mountains
Philadelphia offers excellent cultural amenities — orchestra, museums, opera, ballet, jazz clubs
Passionate sports fan base
Awesome local beer scene
Outstanding culinary scene and farmers' markets
Vibrant urban shopping districts, some of them hidden gems (North Third Street in Old City)
Most affordable housing of the big Northeastern metropolises
Philadelphia has many outstanding universities and several of the top liberal-arts colleges in the country, but its academic reputation remains a notch below Boston's
Native Philadelphians are helpful but can be gruff
Subway system is a fraction of what it should have been, but regional rail network offers unusually dense coverage
Nightlife is average for a major city
Philadelphia is segregated although this is improving
Local politics are on par with Chicago's for corruption
Sports culture can be annoying for those not from the area
Older housing stock
Traffic blows
Save for cost of housing, quality of politics and quality of food scene, I would say Boston and Philadelphia are comparable.
agree..Although where I would give philly the nightlife and food scene edge I would give Boston the biotech/healthcare/research edge an edge it would have over any us city
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