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Downtown Tucson feels like thriving urban community. Tempe feels like a dime-a-dozen suburb with an Urban Outfitters, a Banana Republic, and a Starbucks.
There is not a Banana Republic anywhere near Tempe. When I visited Tucson a few years back, I did not see all that much difference from Tempe. They felt like comparable cities to me, except for the fact that Tempe is part of the Phoenix metro area which has more to offer (such as better shopping, a hub airport, etc.). Also, there is an Urban Outfitters in Tucson as well, right by U of A.
Also, unlike most other cities in the Valley, Tempe is starting to build up and densify. In 5 years from now, it will be a much different place.
I'm not bashing Tucson, I believe it is a good option for the OP to check out. I'm not a Phoenix homer, I couldn't wait to leave, I'm just sharing my perspective.
I'd go with Reno...have enjoyed my visits there..evolving downtown..pretty cool vibe and super close to Tahoe and accessible to the Bay Area/Sacramento.
Wow the response for this thread has been great. Exactly what I was looking for.
I'm not so concerned with diversity of population, although I have no problems with people of varying cultural, ethnic and social backgrounds. I wouldn't want to live in an all-white city, that's for sure.
I'm more worried about a downtown that's got Southeast Asian cuisine, Latin, American, Caribbean, Italian. I love the food of the world and the cultures that come with it, but having worked with refugee groups from Southeast Asia, Nepali/Indian food is where its at.
I like a downtown with a few coffee shops and brewpubs, a local hardware store, etc.
Vegas felt a bit too, well... "Casino Town", very much like Atlantic City, NJ or Ocean City, MD. Which is great for job opportunity and entertainment, certainly, but not great when you're worried about stuff being stolen from your car like our stuff was when we visited in March.
On the flip-side, Flagstaff was a bit too "small town", in that despite its great downtown, I worry that finding a job in a town like that, especially competing with all those college student will be difficult.
Warmth isn't a requirement, my wife and I can handle temps in the 40's and 50's, and we don't mind the occasional snow, but we're tired of mud, cold rain, mold, and below freezing temps.
I just want to preface by saying that I really enjoyed Tucson as I lived there for approximately 17 years. Having said that, what do you mean by downtown Tucson being more diverse? If you are speaking about the diverse college population which primarily populates the areas around the university, downtown, and 4th Avenue, I cannot agree. ASU in Tempe is the 8th largest university in terms of U.S. universities with the most international students. However, the OP may be more interested in the vibrant "small-shop" downtown core that Tucson offers.
But it's also worth noting that outside of that core (which is not very big) Tucson is very sprawly and filled with large 6-lane roads, strip malls, and chain restaurants.
Ok, ASU and UofA students are identical: international kids from India, Saudi, and China and a bunch of drunk bleach-blondes from suburban LA, all mixed with the few native Arizonans who haven't yet fled the state (I'm from Tucson and every single last one of my friends from high school have left Arizona).
That said, when comparing 4th Ave to Tempe, there's a much stronger hippie vibe in Tucson, a stronger, more close-knit LGBT community, a stronger arts community, and better music scene. On 4th, you'll meet Baha'i folks, hare krishna people, gutter punks, transsexuals, communists, evangelicals, militant vegetarians, rastafarians, and other folks from every walk of life. The area surrounding downtown Tucson is also more strongly Hispanic than Tempe. This all adds to a feeling of diversity that you get in downtown Tucson, which is missing from Tempe. Downtown Tucson feels like thriving urban community. Tempe feels like a dime-a-dozen suburb with an Urban Outfitters, a Banana Republic, and a Starbucks.
Actually, I think the Coranado neighborhood in Phoenix proper would appeal to the OP more than Tempe.
I understand what you are saying; however, if the OP's primary concern is employment, then perhaps Tucson may not be the best fit.
I understand what you are saying; however, if the OP's primary concern is employment, then perhaps Tucson may not be the best fit.
Than perhaps Arizona (or Nevada) is not the best fit.
If the OP's concern is employment, he should suck it up, rework his budget, bite the bullet, deal with the cost of living, and move to California. There's no opportunity in Arizona, hence everyone I know leaving.
That said, when comparing 4th Ave to Tempe, there's a much stronger hippie vibe in Tucson, a stronger, more close-knit LGBT community, a stronger arts community, and better music scene. On 4th, you'll meet Baha'i folks, hare krishna people, gutter punks, transsexuals, communists, evangelicals, militant vegetarians, rastafarians, and other folks from every walk of life. The area surrounding downtown Tucson is also more strongly Hispanic than Tempe. This all adds to a feeling of diversity that you get in downtown Tucson, which is missing from Tempe. Downtown Tucson feels like thriving urban community. Tempe feels like a dime-a-dozen suburb with an Urban Outfitters, a Banana Republic, and a Starbucks.
Actually, I think the Coranado neighborhood in Phoenix proper would appeal to the OP more than Tempe.
Spot-on. Very well stated, and aligns seamlessly with my experiences having lived in AZ for 8 years. I lived in Phoenix, but spent a lot of time in both Tempe and Tucson. Both are big college towns, but really two different breeds of college town. Tempe, despite having the insular world of Mill Ave contained in a small area of it's city limits, felt and looked extremely sunbelt-suburban, and even Mill Ave seemed to lack the more intellectual-bohemian vibe that most big college towns have.
ASU is a notorious business major-party school. More frat-boy/sorority girl than hippie/punk/artist/weirdo. Tucson leans much heavier in the other direction, and 4th Ave was/is a great example. 4th Ave also feels much more like a city than a suburb, though only by sunbelt-city standards.
4th Ave is to Mill Ave, what UCBerkeley is to UCIrvine.
Still, Tucson isn't the greatest town to seek employment in.
Last edited by Bobloblawslawblog; 11-25-2014 at 07:43 PM..
While I disagree 100% that it is "just a casino town", it definitely isn't bicycles, shops and hipsterish.
Most of what Vegas really is, is suburban sprawl surrounded by mountains. Yes, there is tons of entertainment... But you have to realize living here is FAR different than visiting here.
People love visiting bourbon street, but people who live in N.O. sure as heck aren't hanging out there every night... Know what I mean?
What about Sacramento? Doesn't have the coastal CA prices and seems to offer what you're looking for.
Exactly. Why settle for almost-California when you can get real California. Biking, good weather, diverse population and food, median home price in the mid 200's, vibrant core.
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