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You're right. I do have an issue with Jersey. I hate Jersey and I can say what I want. My family goes back generations in Englewood.
The entire state of New Jersey only has 2 counties in the top 10. Northern VA alone has 5 in the top 10. Exactly HALF the country's 10 wealthiest counties are in NoVA.
Of the ten wealthiest counties in the US, only Hunterdon and Somerset cracked the top 10 in NJ. Combined they make up a significant minority of North Jersey's population. They make up only 457,000 out of the 3.5 million people in North Jersey.
The top 3 counties with the highest median income in the entire country are Loudon County, Fairfax County and Arlington County. All in Northern VA. These are the only three counties in the country with a median income over $100,000. Combined they make up 1.7 million out of the 2.6 million people in NoVA and these are the TOP THREE in the entire country. This is aside from the fact that NoVA also has 2 more counties in the top 10, adding to a total of 2.2 million of the 2.6 million people in NoVA. The vast majority of NoVA residents actually live within the absolute wealthiest counties in the country. The vast majority of North Jersey residents don't.
Enjoy your misery, and thanks for admitting you have an axe to grind and your opinion is basically worthless since you're spewing false information in a vindictive manner all because you have a (still undisclosed/unexplained - you have family history in Englewood means nothing to me) issue with my state.
Again, no stats (lol at go look it up). You just post what you "feel" to be true with no substantiation. (i.e. "However, while I don't have data to prove this, I would find it very hard to believe that Princeton grads are moving in larger droves to suburban Jersey than to SF/Silicon Valley"). And we're all supposed to take this at face value? C'mon. I could care less if you like me--for the record, I think you're an elitist pretender who obfuscates, glosses over key points, and tries to weasel out of arguments with unrelated statistics. Just don't come at me with weak, unsubstantiated arguments. I'm sure you'll get even more rep points, trust me.
Oh, and to nitpick (and I guess just to be "sour"), NNJ also has Columbia (y'know, in the real world), since you seem to be listing by metros. As far as Rutgers, it's actually the 26th best public school in the nation--is that not competitive enough for you? Top Public Schools | Rankings | Top National Universities | US News | page 2
^^^The whole point of the thread is looking at NNJ as a standalone. Would NNJ by itself be comparable to a similarly sized city/metro? I.e. is NNJ comparable to Philly, or Boston, or DC, or SF? So I take that to mean (and clearly others do too) that the amenities and institutions of New York City are not in play.
Also, #26th best public school is not "elite". It's good, perhaps excellent, but not elite. UC Berkeley is #1 public school, but ranked among all colleges is #20 (i.e. the first public school shows up at #20). Princeton is #1 this year. Rutgers clears #70, nationally, among all colleges.
For your convenience:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gottaq
If Northern NJ were compared to other US cities and their metro areas, where would NNJ rank? In terms of population size, economy, jobs, skyscrapers, etc. Would it stack up against cities like Philadelphia and Atlanta? I'm talking about Bergen, Essex, Hudson, Passiac, Union and Middlesex Counties...
What is not clear?
And, I don't need to prove anything to you. The facts are that NYC Metro, including NNJ, is #1 geography for Princeton grads, followed by the Bay Area. However, what I said, is this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonelitist
However, while I don't have data to prove this, I would find it very hard to believe that Princeton grads are moving in larger droves to suburban Jersey than to SF/Silicon Valley (Princeton is very engineering focused after all), let alone NYC.
I would be willing to bet, based on the absolute logic of this, that others would agree. How about since you're taking the argumentative stance, you try to prove this wrong? That would make more sense.
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I'll concede the standalone comparison of NNJ to other cities/metros; I am in the wrong--your point has been made. Still, I am of the mindset that NNJ, even without NYC, remains competitive. A loser against SF, DC, Philly, etc., in most metrics to be sure, but competitive enough that we can have this discussion. NNJ is unique in this regard, compared to other "suburban" areas.
[quote=anonelitist;38014148]And, I don't need to prove anything to you. The facts are that NYC Metro, including NNJ, is #1 geography for Princeton grads, followed by the Bay Area.[quote]
Again, no stats. Has nothing to do with proving anything to me--it has to do with solidifying your own position. This is just plain lazy, at best. If we're just going to conjecture without any hard data, why bother debating?
To go back to your assumption that Princeton isn't a huge driver for the NNJ economy (and provide STATS), there's this:
"With approximately 6,323 benefits-eligible employees, Princeton University is one of the largest private employers in central New Jersey. The institution’s overall regional economic impact amounts to approximately $2 billion. This is based on the University’s total expenditures in 2013-14 of approximately $1.58 billion (including $80 million for the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory, or PPPL), along with the expenditures of close to 790,000 people attending events throughout the year on campus, and the expenditures of the thousands of students and employees. Included in these statistics is the $25 million economic impact of the nationally acclaimed McCarter Theatre Center, whose facility is owned by the University (McCarter programming drew approximately 150,000 visitors last year, with an operating budget of $11.3 million and approximately 160 full and part-time employees).
The University strives to purchase goods and services in New Jersey as much as possible. Approximately 43 percent of the $318.1 million spent on capital construction and major maintenance in 2013-14 went to New Jersey firms, and approximately 25 percent of the $263.1 million spent on nonconstruction purchases in 2013-14 went to New Jersey firms.
The University continues to play an important role in attracting prestigious international corporations to central New Jersey, particularly to the University-developed Forrestal Center properties in Plainsboro and South Brunswick. These lands feature premier office, retail and residential space as well as academic space, with an approximate assessed valuation of $1.4 billion in Plainsboro and South Brunswick.
In addition, the University has helped spur the high-tech alley on U.S. Route 1 by helping to create hundreds of new jobs through research and development. For example, in the past decade the University’s interdisciplinary research centers, including the Princeton Institute for the Science and Technology of Materials (PRISM), have formed research and development partnerships with approximately 300 New Jersey-based companies (including nearly 100 startups) and entrepreneurs in a wide array of fields, ranging from environmental monitoring to pharmaceuticals, energy, security and nanotechnology."
The data (provided below) I found for Stanford shows it is indeed the bigger economic driver, as to be expected, though the above proves that Princeton is absolutely integrated into the NNJ economy. This is to say nothing of intangible alumni contributions of both universities. Here's the data that shows Stanford's economic impact by its alumni:
"The study, released today, estimates that companies formed by Stanford entrepreneurs generate world revenues of $2.7 trillion annually and have created 5.4 million jobs since the 1930s."
"An estimated 18,000 firms created by alumni are headquartered in California, generating annual worldwide sales of about $1.27 trillion and employing more than 3 million people."
[quote=anonelitist;38014148] I would be willing to bet, based on the absolute logic of this, that others would agree. How about since you're taking the argumentative stance, you try to prove this wrong? That would make more sense.{QUOTE]
Why would a destination literally across the country be more appealing than a comparable destination at home? SF/Silicon Valley, for all of its attractiveness, has some competition in NYC/NNJ/Silicon Alley/NJ Route 1. This isn't Fargo, ND we're talking about. If the NYC metro, to include NNJ, is the number one Princeton grad destination, why wouldn't suburban NJ be attractive? Especially when you factor the exorbitant costs of NYC and the expected spillover. Suburban NJ, outside of NOVA, is possibly the best bang for your buck in the country. The absolute logic would be NNJ would have a higher total of Princeton grads than the Bay.
One last thing to add, concerning shopping, Bergen County is the single largest retail zip code in the country ($5 billion plus annually), despite the presence of Blue Laws, which shut down stores on Sunday.
There are 50 states with 3143 counties (or their equivalents). If a small state like New Jersey has two counties in the top ten - then I would say New Jersey is doing pretty darn good!
I don't see how NJ's overall size that affects what I said in any way at all because NoVA alone has more counties in the top 10 than the entire state of NJ. NJ is much bigger than NoVA.
Enjoy your misery, and thanks for admitting you have an axe to grind and your opinion is basically worthless since you're spewing false information in a vindictive manner all because you have a (still undisclosed/unexplained - you have family history in Englewood means nothing to me) issue with my state.
You and I both know you didn't stop reading there. You simply can't refute what I said. It's not like I'm the only one who hates Jersey. It's not that great of a state.
I don't see how NJ's overall size that affects what I said in any way at all because NoVA alone has more counties in the top 10 than the entire state of NJ. NJ is much bigger than NoVA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyg2014
You're right. I do have an issue with Jersey. I hate Jersey and I can say what I want. My family goes back generations in Englewood.
The entire state of New Jersey only has 2 counties in the top 10. Northern VA alone has 5 in the top 10. Exactly HALF the country's 10 wealthiest counties are in NoVA.
Of the ten wealthiest counties in the US, only Hunterdon and Somerset cracked the top 10 in NJ. Combined they make up a significant minority of North Jersey's population. They make up only 457,000 out of the 3.5 million people in North Jersey.
Let me try to put this way. You say ONLY like there is something wrong with New Jersey. But I am pointing out that there 3143 counties in the United States, that is a lot of competition. So if New Jersey manages 2 of the top 10, she is actually doing pretty good.
Location: Watching half my country turn into Gilead
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Reputation: 2925
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonelitist
And, I don't need to prove anything to you. The facts are that NYC Metro, including NNJ, is #1 geography for Princeton grads, followed by the Bay Area.
I'm bored. Here, let me help you with your own argument:
I'll concede the standalone comparison of NNJ to other cities/metros; I am in the wrong--your point has been made. Still, I am of the mindset that NNJ, even without NYC, remains competitive. A loser against SF, DC, Philly, etc., in most metrics to be sure, but competitive enough that we can have this discussion. NNJ is unique in this regard, compared to other "suburban" areas.
Again, no stats. Has nothing to do with proving anything to me--it has to do with solidifying your own position. This is just plain lazy, at best. If we're just going to conjecture without any hard data, why bother debating?
To go back to your assumption that Princeton isn't a huge driver for the NNJ economy (and provide STATS), there's this:
"With approximately 6,323 benefits-eligible employees, Princeton University is one of the largest private employers in central New Jersey. The institution’s overall regional economic impact amounts to approximately $2 billion. This is based on the University’s total expenditures in 2013-14 of approximately $1.58 billion (including $80 million for the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory, or PPPL), along with the expenditures of close to 790,000 people attending events throughout the year on campus, and the expenditures of the thousands of students and employees. Included in these statistics is the $25 million economic impact of the nationally acclaimed McCarter Theatre Center, whose facility is owned by the University (McCarter programming drew approximately 150,000 visitors last year, with an operating budget of $11.3 million and approximately 160 full and part-time employees).
The University strives to purchase goods and services in New Jersey as much as possible. Approximately 43 percent of the $318.1 million spent on capital construction and major maintenance in 2013-14 went to New Jersey firms, and approximately 25 percent of the $263.1 million spent on nonconstruction purchases in 2013-14 went to New Jersey firms.
The University continues to play an important role in attracting prestigious international corporations to central New Jersey, particularly to the University-developed Forrestal Center properties in Plainsboro and South Brunswick. These lands feature premier office, retail and residential space as well as academic space, with an approximate assessed valuation of $1.4 billion in Plainsboro and South Brunswick.
In addition, the University has helped spur the high-tech alley on U.S. Route 1 by helping to create hundreds of new jobs through research and development. For example, in the past decade the University’s interdisciplinary research centers, including the Princeton Institute for the Science and Technology of Materials (PRISM), have formed research and development partnerships with approximately 300 New Jersey-based companies (including nearly 100 startups) and entrepreneurs in a wide array of fields, ranging from environmental monitoring to pharmaceuticals, energy, security and nanotechnology."
The data (provided below) I found for Stanford shows it is indeed the bigger economic driver, as to be expected, though the above proves that Princeton is absolutely integrated into the NNJ economy. This is to say nothing of intangible alumni contributions of both universities. Here's the data that shows Stanford's economic impact by its alumni:
"The study, released today, estimates that companies formed by Stanford entrepreneurs generate world revenues of $2.7 trillion annually and have created 5.4 million jobs since the 1930s."
"An estimated 18,000 firms created by alumni are headquartered in California, generating annual worldwide sales of about $1.27 trillion and employing more than 3 million people."
Why would a destination literally across the country be more appealing than a comparable destination at home? SF/Silicon Valley, for all of its attractiveness, has some competition in NYC/NNJ/Silicon Alley/NJ Route 1. This isn't Fargo, ND we're talking about. If the NYC metro, to include NNJ, is the number one Princeton grad destination, why wouldn't suburban NJ be attractive? Especially when you factor the exorbitant costs of NYC and the expected spillover. Suburban NJ, outside of NOVA, is possibly the best bang for your buck in the country. The absolute logic would be NNJ would have a higher total of Princeton grads than the Bay.
One last thing to add, concerning shopping, Bergen County is the single largest retail zip code in the country ($5 billion plus annually), despite the presence of Blue Laws, which shut down stores on Sunday.
Clearly NNJ is a desirable, "world class" shopping destination in its own right.
That's all good to hear - you've helped me better understand how Princeton is directly impacting NNJ as opposed to NYC or other cities in other states.
One thing I find interesting from your most recent link - SF isn't a top city for Princeton undergrads, but is #2 for their grad school, which is very engineering heavy (and there is no MBA at Princeton). Unless the top list is looking at engineering programs only - the description of the data is odd. Cornell matches above and below, however, Princeton is different. Clearly the bottom list is Ivy only and the top list is top 10 engineering schools. However, the description mentions Undergrad and Grad...weird.
Let me try to put this way. You say ONLY like there is something wrong with New Jersey. But I am pointing out that there 3143 counties in the United States, that is a lot of competition. So if New Jersey manages 2 of the top 10, she is actually doing pretty good.
Of course it would manage to get a couple. It's right outside NYC. It's to be expected.
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