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Yeah, knew this would bring out the Philly homers.
Broad St below South is like walking along NY NE in DC past N. Capitol. Technically walkable, but not much to see. East Passyunk is like an island strip surrounded by mediocre neighborhoods. Philly is great for walking compared to Atlanta, but it lacks the connected walkable neighborhoods you get in Boston, SF, and Chicago.
No it isn't. It is quintessential Philadelphia. This isn't even a debate and Broad St. is the last street most people would walk down given that is the street the subway follows. People would walk from the various neighborhoods south. You literally stated "nothing to see south of south street". Which is completely untrue. I suggest to anyone visiting Philly, that you at least once walk down 9th street from south st. through the italian market or walk from Rittenhouse to filter square and than along the brick streets of Graduate Hospital or walk from old city to east passyunk to have dinner and sit outside near the singing fountain afterwards. I am so confused by your comparison too. Considering Broad St. is at the epicenter of Philadelphia's grid and NY NE ave after North capitol doesn't even intersect with the grid and runs parallel with a train yard, I don't get the comparison at all. That is not all you said either in your original post. You literally stated that you couldn't walk to the north or west from center city either. Which are both just as much untrue.
Walkscore (and Bikescore) has issues with Sacramento but the core 4+ square miles has well over 30,000 residents at this point (100K weekday workforce) in a perfect tree lined grid with walk and bike scores above 90. And light rail running through it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25
That's a pretty low density for the core of a city of two million.
Please, this is America we're talking about. Few of our 2-3 million person metros have 4 square miles of continuous 90+ walkscore walkability. Even less with pleasant weather and great tree-cover.
Is 5-10K ppsm dense? Not particularly, but it supports a good level of retail and walkability is the point of this thread, not density.
Props for tree cover, but that's still not very high density. It's probably ok by Sun Belt standards excepting LA/SF.
I guess it's a matter of how much is enough for the type of services, proximity, etc., you're talking about. A 7,500/sm average is very different from 20,000, or 50,000. Quite a few US cities exceed the 20,000/sm figure for a similar area, and I'd guess SF and/or Chicago would join Manhattan in exceeding 50,000 (the whole island is closer to 70,000 iirc).
The same is true in the context of a downtown with a lot of jobs mixed in too.
I have had the very good fortune to travel all over the country, and I walk as a leading form of exercise. Love walking in cities because the energy of the surroundings will keep me going when my feet are blistered up, and my wife (who's 15 years younger) is ready to stop. So I've found there are tiers like this:
Tier 1 - Can walk 3+ miles without retracing steps - NY, Chi, SF, Bos, DC
These five cities are elite for walking. Why? The walkable neighborhoods connect to each other to form a long area over which you can walk. In Boston and DC, you can even walk into suburban areas like Brookline or Chevy Chase. Chicago you can start south of the AIC and walk 4-5 miles up to Wrigleyville. SF you can go AT&T Park, curve around the Embarcadero all the way to Crissy Field..or cut into the neighborhoods along the way. Having traveled to nearly every top 40 city in this country, these five have noticeably better walking than any other, and it can feel endless.
Tier 2 - Can Walk 1-3 miles without retracing steps - Seattle, Philly
Both are close to Tier 1, but you're boxed in. Philly's great for walking around Center City, and Society Hill --> Rittenhouse Sq is a favorite. But not great to walk below South St, West of 30th St, or North of the Art Museum. Seattle is outstanding DT, Belltown, Capitol Hill, but Queen Anne Hill makes walking over to Fremont and then Ballard impractical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheseGoTo11
Yeah, knew this would bring out the Philly homers.
Broad St below South is like walking along NY NE in DC past N. Capitol. Technically walkable, but not much to see. East Passyunk is like an island strip surrounded by mediocre neighborhoods. Philly is great for walking compared to Atlanta, but it lacks the connected walkable neighborhoods you get in Boston, SF, and Chicago.
You can easily walk 3+ miles in Philadelphia without retracing your steps. Here are 3 routes I just created without even thinking about it:
^^Two starting points are from the Sheraton Hotel in Society Hill. One is from the Curio Hotel in Logan Square.
There are obviously dozens of different paths one could take in Philly. Sorry, but Philly is a tier above Seattle, and in the same league as San Francisco, Boston and DC. Chicago is one tier above those cities. NYC is a tier above everybody else.
Tier 5 - If You Walk More than 1 mile you might get shot - Baltimore, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Detroit, St.Louis
Rust belt cities that have lost a lot of population, density, and urban neighborhoods due to slow growth regional economies. Loss of nearby manufacturing jobs has taken DT energy with them. Have walkable pockets, but it's usually a small area with rough neighborhoods very close by. Few blocks of DT with reasonable energy, but it's really just a few blocks.
Not true for Pittsburgh, here are a few routes around 6-7 miles each:
from downtown near the point, to...
- follow Penn Ave through the Strip District (ehtnic markets and other shops) and then through Bloomfield (an Italian neighborhood) and to East Liberty (a regional tech hub and some shopping).
-branch off of Penn Ave in the Strip to Butler street go through Lawrenceville (considered a hipster hood)and then to Highland Park
-branch off of Penn Ave in the Strip to Liberty Ave and go through Shadyside (boutique shopping & restaurants to Squirrel Hill (residential and more restaurants)
-branch off of Liberty Ave to Centre Ave and then Craig street through Oakland (large university area)
-over the 10th st bridge then through the south side flats (tons of bars restaurants and shopping)
Not true for Pittsburgh, here are a few routes around 6-7 miles each:
from downtown near the point, to...
- follow Penn Ave through the Strip District (ehtnic markets and other shops) and then through Bloomfield (an Italian neighborhood) and to East Liberty (a regional tech hub and some shopping).
-branch off of Penn Ave in the Strip to Butler street go through Lawrenceville (considered a hipster hood)and then to Highland Park
-branch off of Penn Ave in the Strip to Liberty Ave and go through Shadyside (boutique shopping & restaurants to Squirrel Hill (residential and more restaurants)
-branch off of Liberty Ave to Centre Ave and then Craig street through Oakland (large university area)
-over the 10th st bridge then through the south side flats (tons of bars restaurants and shopping)
This route would make a great all day pub crawl!
Also in Pittsburgh the other weekend when it was in the 70s I did about an 8 mile round trip with no retracing from my house in Lawrenceville. Basically walked to the Point Breeze entrance of Frick Park via Garfield, East Liberty, Shadyside, and then through the park a little and back through Squirrel Hill, Schenley Park, Oakland, Blooomfield, and back to Lawrenceville. Besides the parks I was walking through active business districts and residential districts the entire time.
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