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And our larger number of people are underperforming, less productive, less educated, more violent people than the Twin Cities smaller number of people. I'll take the Minnesota cities
It is embarrassing that we have 800,000 more people in our metro area than Minneapolis, but we produce LESS. Its an indictment on both black and white folk in the area.
It happens to other cities as well and it's not like Minny is average when it comes to it's size, it punches above it's weight for sure. And of course we all know what Detroit's economy went through last decade, were still recovering and it shows.
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What does that do for someone who didn't go to college? A healthy economy should take care of people at all levels of society, not just the elite.
Lol oh yea? try telling that to people in SF or something. Detroit is known for having good (or at least decent) paying jobs for people who have a high school diploma. I know plenty of people who couldn't make it in these coastal cities because they didn't have a degree. Hell there was a thread in the Detroit forum about a year ago about someone from Portland who mentioned how people even with college degrees are working at Starbucks because it's like a high school diploma there. Someone without a degree may not be able to make $70k right off the bat but they can sure as hell find a blue collar job that pays them $15 or more especially with experience. It may not be easy but I know plenty who do it. And another thing, ha this is modern day America. A HS diploma is becoming less and less valuable, the Midwest and maybe the South are about the only places left that a person without a degree, experience, or connections can live and raise a family somewhat comfortably. Try that in the coast and you will likely end up with 5 hipster roommates, a studio the size of my closet, or in the ghetto. I wish it wasn't like that and I feel strongly about it but it is what it is.
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Well, that was a pretty nonsensical response. Also, boxing is incredibly stupid.
Just because you don't like it doesn't make it stupid. Boxing (well fighting period) is an art and takes much skill to master. To the inexperienced eye it may just look like people throwing jabs and weaving but you have no idea the mental capacity, reflexes, speed, and skill it takes to be great. It's a great sport along with other fighting sports and can definitely teach you a thing or two about real world situations.
Great that you're aware--so why keep bringing it up? It's history and not how global economics works. Manufacturing magically reappearing centered in the US and the conditions of the immediately post World War I and then World War II as well as the immediate turmoil of decolonialization are not going to suddenly happen again.
However, those are MSAs (and obviously the list does not include Windsor since it's a US bureau). So, pretty close, but MSP is still ahead. I think if you want to go CSA (for Detroit would include Flint, Ann Arbor, Monroe, and Adrian MSAs; for the Twin Cities would include St. Cloud, Faribault-Northfield, Red Wing, and Hutchinson MSAs), then Detroit, especially after considering Windsor, is up ahead. However, it looks like Twin Cities is economically a bit healthier so I stand by what I said in terms of it being "the one with the larger economic clout at this point, and if not now, then very soon." Of course, I might be wrong. Things might turn for both or either in any direction quickly--which then boils back down to the statement NEITHER is soundly second place at this point. Basically, are we talking the MSA in the US or the CSA (or the MSA/CSA plus Canada)? If these factors means placing one above the other, and almost never by a particularly large margin, then I don't see either being soundly second place.
Let me say that I think Detroit represents "the real economy". The state of the Detroit region, I believe, is a microcosm of the TRUE health of our nation. Keep in mind that the Detroit region cannot print money.and does not have in infinite buyer of bonds the governments issue to finance its spending and keep the region afloat, like the US government does. I say that because people will note that the national economy was being doing a lot better than the Detroit area economy. Well, that is because of a 17 trillion debt, 50 trillion in unfunded liabilities and the FED buying of securities issued by the government to keep things stimulated and the result of the FED zero interest rate policy. Without all that debt and manipulation, the US economy would mirror the Detroit area economy.
Manufacturing is the REAL economy, in my opinion. Manufacturing "puts meat and muscle on your bones", drawing analogy to a human diet. It's the "protein" of the economy. Read this article.
As I pointed out before, if Detroit's major companies collapse, the national economy would be impacted much more than if the major corporations of Minneapolis collapsed. How can Minneapolis even be considered the second most influential and important region in the Midwest when Detroit's economy is more important to the US economy than is Minneapolis? More important economy, larger economy in terms of GDP of the GREATER areas, 2 million more people in the GREATER areas, Greater impact in terms of international trade and a much greater exporting economy.
As I said before......its basically cultural that you all are really ranking. If you like Minneapolis.....if that is your model....then no you will probably not like a metro area why a hyper black majority occupying the urban core....and for that reason....more than anything else....is why most whites would consider Minneapolis the second city.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 05-24-2015 at 03:00 PM..
Let me say that I think Detroit represents "the real economy". The state of the Detroit region, I believe, is a microcosm of the TRUE health of our nation. Keep in mind that the Detroit region cannot print money.and does not have in infinite buyer of bonds the governments issue to finance its spending and keep the region afloat, like the US government does. I say that because people will note that the national economy was being doing a lot better than the Detroit area economy. Well, that is because of a 17 trillion debt, 50 trillion in unfunded liabilities and the FED buying of securities issued by the government to keep things stimulated and the result of the FED zero interest rate policy. Without all that debt and manipulation, the US economy would mirror the Detroit area economy.
Manufacturing is the REAL economy, in my opinion. Manufacturing "puts meat and muscle on your bones", drawing analogy to a human diet. It's the "protein" of the economy. Read this article.
As I pointed out before, if Detroit's major companies collapse, the national economy would be impacted much more than if the major corporations of Minneapolis collapsed. How can Minneapolis even be considered the second most influential and important region in the Midwest when Detroit's economy is more important to the US economy than is Minneapolis? More important economy, larger economy in terms of GDP of the GREATER areas, 2 million more people in the GREATER areas, Greater impact in terms of international trade and a much greater exporting economy.
As I said before......its basically cultural that you all are really ranking. If you like Minneapolis.....if that is your model....then no you will probably not like a metro area why a hyper black majority occupying the urban core....and for that reason....more than anything else....is why most whites would consider Minneapolis the second city.
I think your opinion is bad economic policy, but we can disagree on that. Manufacturing can certainly be an extremely important (and as a whole, the US should be trying to do more), but a diversified economy is preferable in the long term.
And yea, I agree that if you're going by CSAs with the heavyweight 300/400K people and GDP of the Canada side, Detroit has the bigger GDP. That's already been stated. If you go MSAs, then the Twin Cities. That's what I have been saying as one example of how neither is soundly in second place.
For people looking for employment in more economic sectors, Minneapolis is going to be the better second city than Detroit regardless of race. Also, I'm not white, nor do I "act white." This isn't even my first or second language
Oh, one thing that might be good, if we want to back to metrics of any sort, is to post Fortune 500 headquarters lists for the two respective regions. Who wants to do that?
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 05-24-2015 at 06:41 PM..
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the government employment presence in the Twin Cities from having the state capital to having a federal reserve bank. That doesn't hurt either.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the government employment presence in the Twin Cities from having the state capital to having a federal reserve bank. That doesn't hurt either.
Yea, that's definitely a good bedrock for the economy during something like a recession and adds greatly to the economic diversity of the metro area. I did mention that in some sense you can argue that it adds another bit of clout for the metro.
An additional major public institution is the University of Minnesota flagship. While the CSA of Detroit includes Ann Arbor and the University of Michigan flagship, it seems like it might have been much better for Detroit and its MSA and immediate environs had the University of Michigan flagship had remained in Detroit to this day or had been built much closer.
I think your opinion is bad economic policy, but we can disagree on that. Manufacturing can certainly be an extremely important (and as a whole, the US should be trying to do more), but a diversified economy is preferable in the long term.
And yea, I agree that if you're going by CSAs with the heavyweight 300/400K people and GDP of the Canada side, Detroit has the bigger GDP. That's already been stated. If you go MSAs, then the Twin Cities. That's what I have been saying as one example of how neither is soundly in second place.
For people looking for employment in more economic sectors, Minneapolis is going to be the better second city than Detroit regardless of race. Also, I'm not white, nor do I "act white." This isn't even my first or second language
Oh, one thing that might be good, if we want to back to metrics of any sort, is to post Fortune 500 headquarters lists for the two respective regions. Who wants to do that?
You make it sound like I am advocating a manufacturing ONLY economy, which is hardly the case. It's hardly bad economic policy to be able to produce durable goods and the factors of production. As the article that I linked to pointed out, its the common denominator of all GREAT nations.
As it relates to Detroit, its not like the area is ALL manufacturing. There is health care, Universities, Quicken Loans, Google....and the fact that cars are integrating so much computer technology means that the tech sector is getting a big boost as well. THe Detroit regions economy is more diverse than it has ever been and less dependent upon auto production than it ever has been. The Detroit area is more the BRAINS of the auto industry, although it still has the highest concentration of parts and assembly too.
Hell....Minneapolis economy is better than the Chicago area economy....so does that make the Twin Cities the First city of the Midwest....and does the fact that its probably easier to find a job in Sioux Falls, South Dakota put the Twin Cities behind that city?
Minneapolis has a healthier economy, its a safer area, it has a more vibrant urban core.....there are many things that it has over the Detroit area.....and it has many things better than Chicago....but have some things better does not make you the first or second city.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 05-24-2015 at 07:49 PM..
Who cares about engineering jobs? The Twin Cities is far more diversified than Detroit, and as Drewcifer already mentioned, unemployment is next to nonexistent here. The job market is much, much healthier and more robust in MSP than in Detroit, so I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is. You could also say that Detroit has far more auto industry jobs than the Twin Cities, which is absolutely 100% true. That's why Detroit's economy has floundered and spiraled into abysmal decline for decades.
Engineers care about engineering jobs. You do realize engineers work in many diversified industries? Engineering jobs are a sign of the amount of tech jobs (or lack thereof) in any area. The typical engineer is paid higher than the typical Target employee.
A short history lesson. Most of the auto industry is not now, nor was, in the city of Detroit. Ford's headquarters has been located in Dearborn (not the city of Detroit) since before WW2. Chrysler was headquartered in Highland Park and is now in Auburn Hills (neither in the city of Detroit). GM's Tech Center has been in Warren since 1955 (not the city of Detroit).
[quote=Indentured Servant;39746531 The Detroit area is more the BRAINS of the auto industry
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That is why you see so many foreign companies with a footprint in the Detroit area. That is something you do not see in Minneapolis. New businesses are not moving into the MPS area.
You make it sound like I am advocating a manufacturing ONLY economy, which is hardly the case. It's hardly bad economic policy to be able to produce durable goods and the factors of production. As the article that I linked to pointed out, its the common denominator of all GREAT nations.
As it relates to Detroit, its not like the area is ALL manufacturing. There is health care, Universities, Quicken Loans, Google....and the fact that cars are integrating so much computer technology means that the tech sector is getting a big boost as well. THe Detroit regions economy is more diverse than it has ever been and less dependent upon auto production than it ever has been. The Detroit area is more the BRAINS of the auto industry, although it still has the highest concentration of parts and assembly too.
Hell....Minneapolis economy is better than the Chicago area economy....so does that make the Twin Cities the First city of the Midwest....and does the fact that its probably easier to find a job in Sioux Falls, South Dakota put the Twin Cities behind that city?
Minneapolis has a healthier economy, its a safer area, it has a more vibrant urban core.....there are many things that it has over the Detroit area.....and it has many things better than Chicago....but have some things better does not make you the first or second city.
No, I don't believe you're advocating for only manufacturing. I think you're placing an undue importance to it.
Yes, Detroit, like pretty much any other city, has other sector and industries and it has been diversifying so that's a good step in the right direction.
Minneapolis's economy is not going to offer more employment in more economic sectors than Chicago does. I don't see how that would be possible, but if you think there's some way for you to show that, go right on ahead.
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....and does the fact that its probably easier to find a job in Sioux Falls, South Dakota put the Twin Cities behind that city?