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If you had to choose, would you lump Seattle and Portland in more with sprawling Sun Belt cities like Phoenix, Denver, and Charlotte or Rust Belt cities like Chicago, Cleveland and Pittsburgh?
Why would you assume Denver is built more like a sunbelt city? It was a streetcar city just like Seattle and LA. Poor definition of a sunbelt city to start off a new thread.
Seattle and Portland are built more like Midwestern cities than Phoenix. Seattle in particular was a very industrial-age port city.
In terms of the style of their built environment, they are most similar to cities like Minneapolis, Madison and Omaha in the western Midwest. For example, neighborhood commercial streets like Hawthorne and Belmont in Portland look very similar to the mid to outer city areas of the Twin Cities.
I tend to think of them as more sun-belt like, for the following reasons.
1. They did not go through a protracted decline in the 20th century, only a short decline of a few decades, before population growth resumed.
2. They didn't end up surrounded by incorporated suburbs, which stopped the city from annexing suburban areas.
3. They had access to unincorporated county land, which they utilized to continue to grow municipal boundaries, eventually resulting in a lot of suburban neighborhoods within city limits.
4. For the reasons outlined above, there was relatively little to none of the poisonous city/suburb political dynamics you see in much of the rust belt.
Admittedly, under the same dynamics, a lot of less traditional Midwestern cities which clearly aren't rust belt (Omaha, Kansas City, even arguably Columbus and Indianapolis) would also be considered Sun Belt.
Admittedly, under the same dynamics, a lot of less traditional Midwestern cities which clearly aren't rust belt (Omaha, Kansas City, even arguably Columbus and Indianapolis) would also be considered Sun Belt.[/quote]
LOL @ KC being "Sun Belt..."
Yes our METRO population is growing... Compared to Seattle, Denver, and places in the ACTUAL "Sun Belt," however, our growth is rather anemic.
Kinda hard to be feel like the Sun Belt when it's the middle of January and we're buried under nearly a foot of snow and/or ice. Our winters are quite sunny, though!
In the 1950's KCMO had nearly 550,000 people in about 75-80 square miles, largely south of the Missouri River. Today we have about as many people in nearly four times the area (313 sq mi). That same area that encompassed the 1950's city limits MIGHT have 250,000. Much of that area in the original 1950's city limits is actually still bleeding population to suburban areas to this day.
We may not have had manufacturing on the scale of Chicago, Pittsburgh, or even St. Louis, but we still had our dirty industrial side in the Missouri and Blue river valleys and much of that has decayed in the past 50 years, not much unlike "true" Rust Belt cities.
So in summation, while we're not in the core of what's traditionally considered the Rust Belt, we still have the same population decline and urban decay associated with that region. It's just that we didn't have manufacturing base on the same scale as traditional Rust Belt cities...
I imagine much of the same applies to Omaha & Indy...
So in summation, while we're not in the core of what's traditionally considered the Rust Belt, we still have the same population decline and urban decay associated with that region. It's just that we didn't have manufacturing base on the same scale as traditional Rust Belt cities...
I imagine much of the same applies to Omaha & Indy...
Definitely applies to Indianapolis. The core of the city - the old urban city before the 1970 city-county consolidation - continues to shrink, outside of Downtown proper, in terms of population. Arguably it's one of the worse cities in the Midwest when it comes to the health of core first-ring urban neighborhoods.
That said, the same dynamics were true in the Sun Belt. Core neighborhoods around the country declined in population substantially from 1950 to 2000. it was only that in the sun belt, in most cases, cities could go on an annexation spree, scooping up the surrounding suburbs as they were built, or in some cases even before they were built, which more than canceled out any inner core population decline.
4. For the reasons outlined above, there was relatively little to none of the poisonous city/suburb political dynamics you see in much of the rust belt.
Seattle actually does have a fairly contentious relationship with some of it's suburbs around issues like transportation funding, etc. It gets even more contentious in other parts of the state, where Seattle is strongly disliked and viewed as a liberal, entitled money-sucker. (Nevermind that King County actually subsidizes other counties in the State.)
In terms of the style of their built environment, they are most similar to cities like Minneapolis, Madison and Omaha in the western Midwest. For example, neighborhood commercial streets like Hawthorne and Belmont in Portland look very similar to the mid to outer city areas of the Twin Cities.
Is that really unique to any particular part of the country? Looks a bit like it could be in a number of states.
That's basically the look of neighborhoods built out from 1900 to 1925 or so - late era streetcar suburbs.
The placement of these neighborhoods varies however. In older cities in the Northeast/Rust Belt, there is a ring (or two, or more) of Victorian neighborhoods before you get to these. In other cities in the Midwest/West, this is the first ring of residential neighborhoods you hit after you get out of the industrial/warehouse zones fringing the CBD. In some southern cities, this stage is almost skipped entirely.
That's basically the look of neighborhoods built out from 1900 to 1925 or so - late era streetcar suburbs.
The placement of these neighborhoods varies however. In older cities in the Northeast/Rust Belt, there is a ring (or two, or more) of Victorian neighborhoods before you get to these. In other cities in the Midwest/West, this is the first ring of residential neighborhoods you hit after you get out of the industrial/warehouse zones fringing the CBD. In some southern cities, this stage is almost skipped entirely.
Yeah, I've seen these in many cities all over the Midwest.
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