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Hello everyone,
I'm new here and always wanted to join city-data. Now I have a great need for it and your opinions! Anyways as the topic states, I'm looking for anyone that can give comparative opinions/info on any combination of two or all of the regions (southern California/Tulsa/Harrisburg)
The reason I ask is we (me, my wife, and 1 yr old daughter) have no other option but to leave southern California (all of us born and raised here) for one of the other two places. I am (was) a carpenter that went out of work on a workers comp case with both carpal tunnel and cubital tunnel syndrome in both hands and elbows. My workers comp gives me 66% of my previous pay, but unfortunately 100% barely got us by out here so California on 66% is out of the question.
My wife and I are facing the fact that I need to finish school, and we have friends/family in both Tulsa and Harrisburg that are willing to help us out with a place to stay while we get on our feet, and be somewhat of a support system while I get my degree.
My wife and I spent a year in Orlando, and we've visited states/areas surrounding the cities in question (Texas, Louisiana; Maryland, D.C.) so we have experienced other regions of the US, but we were hoping for a little insight from anyone who might have experience in these particular cities. The perspective of another southern Californian would be even better!
We know the obvious differences like weather, geography, some cultural differences, etc. but we're having a hard time deciding what might be an easier transition, and what might be a better place for a quiet relatively conservative family to raise a rapidly growing 1 year old while I finish school. I know there is no one size fits all answer and they will both have subjective pros and cons. We're just trying to make the most informed decision we can with the very little time we have to make it. Thank you for your time
Eric
I was just in harrisburg for the first time this weekend. Definitely had the feel of a much bigger city than it was. Was in a very nice dense but still suburban neighborhood near the river. Definitely a lot to do in the area and close to major cities which have even more to do.
I don't think it would beat out Tulsa or Southern California though however I don't have much experience with those two.
If it's just Harrisburg vs Tulsa, I would definitely go with Harrisburg. So much more to do closer by. Harrisburg itself is a pretty nice city. It has some nice parks, riverfront etc. It also has some great urban neighborhoods and you are very close to the big east coast cities without having to deal with the cost of living or traffic. There are ski resorts nearby, Hershey Park, a AAA hockey team etc. Baltimore, DC, Philly and Pittsburgh are all a relatively short drive away and you also have the Beaches at Ocean City etc.
Tulsa is nice for Oklahoma and certainly better than OKC as far as weather, topography, recreation etc, but I would go with Harrisburg in a heartbeat.
The only think that might scare you about Harrisburg are the winters being from SoCal.
Never been to Oklahoma, but have been to Harrisburg a few times (my aunt used to work for the city's treasury). Harrisburg will definitely be much cheaper for you to live. I'm East Coast-biased, but I think living out here would be an easier transition than Oklahoma. Depending on what aspect of diversity you're looking at, Harrisburg could be both better and worse on that scale. You will most likely find a greater presence of ethnic whites, unless you're coming from LA's Westside. Harrisburg has German history but also Italians, Poles, Amish, etc. you'd probably experience a greater presence of blacks here too, unless you're coming from Inglewood or Compton. There is far less of a Hispanic population in relation to Southern Cali, however Harrisburg is about 20% Latino and of a completely different variety than you guys have in SoCal--by far mostly Puerto Rican, with the rest being made up of other Carribbean Latinos. The relations between races is a different dynamic in PA than you find in Cali, I'd say it's arguably better...
Harrisburg does feel a little larger than it actually is, because it generally functions with York as co-anchors of the Susquehanna Valley region, which has about a million people. Less crowded than almost anywhere in SoCal. I'd think the winters might take some getting used to for you, but it is nowhere near as dry as California...
That said, Harrisburg is a small city, but you seem okay with that. It doesn't have a blazing economy, it is largely working class and is downright run down in some spots. It isn't particularly a 'beautiful' city, and while it has some good restaurants and decent shopping, the real caveat is that you're less than two hours from Philly and Baltimore, about three from Pittsburgh, and everything they offer. The Pennsylvania countryside is beautiful. Harrisburg's location is far greater than Tulsa's, where you're two hours from OKC? Lol go to Harrisburg...
Tulsa is actually a nice city and is quite a bit better than Oklahoma City. It gets a negative rep because its in Oklahoma and because OKC is so awful, but in reality its a very different place and is quite nice for a city its size. Though still overall Republican, Tulsa is the only place in the entire state that has any kind of progressive vibe. If it was between Tulsa and Harrisburg, I would probably go Tulsa. I would rather live in SoCal over either of them by miles and miles.
Never been to Oklahoma, but have been to Harrisburg a few times (my aunt used to work for the city's treasury). Harrisburg will definitely be much cheaper for you to live. I'm East Coast-biased, but I think living out here would be an easier transition than Oklahoma. Depending on what aspect of diversity you're looking at, Harrisburg could be both better and worse on that scale. You will most likely find a greater presence of ethnic whites, unless you're coming from LA's Westside. Harrisburg has German history but also Italians, Poles, Amish, etc. you'd probably experience a greater presence of blacks here too, unless you're coming from Inglewood or Compton. There is far less of a Hispanic population in relation to Southern Cali, however Harrisburg is about 20% Latino and of a completely different variety than you guys have in SoCal--by far mostly Puerto Rican, with the rest being made up of other Carribbean Latinos. The relations between races is a different dynamic in PA than you find in Cali, I'd say it's arguably better...
Harrisburg does feel a little larger than it actually is, because it generally functions with York as co-anchors of the Susquehanna Valley region, which has about a million people. Less crowded than almost anywhere in SoCal. I'd think the winters might take some getting used to for you, but it is nowhere near as dry as California...
That said, Harrisburg is a small city, but you seem okay with that. It doesn't have a blazing economy, it is largely working class and is downright run down in some spots. It isn't particularly a 'beautiful' city, and while it has some good restaurants and decent shopping, the real caveat is that you're less than two hours from Philly and Baltimore, about three from Pittsburgh, and everything they offer. The Pennsylvania countryside is beautiful. Harrisburg's location is far greater than Tulsa's, where you're two hours from OKC? Lol go to Harrisburg...
I think this is a fair assessment. I would actually caveat what you said with the fact that Harrisburg actually does have some beautiful sections and underrated, predominately-brick rowhouse architecture, which urban enthusiasts would appreciate, but, unfortunately, the city is not necessarily in the best state-of-repair. I think more revitalization will occur over time, but it is definitely a work in progress.
The topography just 25 minutes east of Tulsa is spectacular actually. The Ouachita and Ozarks Mountains are drop-dead gorgeous. I was in Tulsa over winter on my roadtrip through the Western half of the United States and it was surprisingly a legit city. More historic, cultured, "structurally dense," and friendly than Oklahoma City.
I personally love the Ouachita Mountains, I went hiking there during winter when I was staying in Dallas/Fort Worth for a couple of days (they are only 70 minutes north of Dallas proper), an easy drive that anyone can make each and every single day. Look up Whitaker Point in the Ozarks, it is a beautiful area just a few hours from Tulsa, you can enjoy the outdoors and there's lots of nice recreational areas to stay in overnight in the Ouachita and Ozarks.
Harrisburg is actually situated in a gorgeous part of Pennsylvania as well, in fact I find the mountain ranges around both cities to look comparably attractive. The thing with Tulsa is that you're always near some legit resort and family vacation areas like Hot Springs, Arkansas or Branson, Missouri; for family vacations on long weekends or holidays or even vacation with just one other person, this could be very attractive for you.
Pennsylvania is a super underrated state when it comes to big cities; first there is Philadelphia (about 7.1 million people), then Pittsburgh (2.6 million people), and then Harrisburg is left entirely in the shadows even though it has 1.2 million people of its own.
You could probably more or less flip a coin between the two cities, honestly. I have seen them both, they are quite comparable on amenities, things to do, areas to explore nearby, and large cities next door (Philadelphia for one, Dallas/Fort Worth for the other).
The transition from Southern California to either will be about the same. Neither are anything like Coastal California, so which ever you move to, you'll have to assimilate to it regardless.
Thanks for your responses everyone, they are much appreciated. I have a feeling the long cold winters will be our biggest shock. I've only gone up to the local mountains to see snow on a handful of day trips, and I've seen it falling once in my life. But I was able to escape back down the mountain to the 65° weather the same day lol! I hear both places can get pretty cold in the winter (I assume PA more so) but I think we'll get used to it.
I am starting to feel as if Harrisburg might be a better fit for us. I think back to our time in Orlando and all we had was Tampa. Not saying anything bad about either place, but we're so accustomed to a sprawling, densely populated area that it was kind of eerie driving 30 minutes in any direction from the middle of town, and being in the middle of nowhere. After 32 years of life there is still so much to explore here in California, whereas I felt I saw everything in 15 months in central Florida. I have the feeling OKC is to Tulsa what Tampa/St. Pete is to Orlando. Not saying that's a bad thing, just much different than what we're used to, we like to explore.
Interesting that ethnic demographics were brought up. I hadn't really thought of that. I hear about racial tension back east on the idiot box (maybe that makes me an idiot ;-) If that is the case, that will be somewhat new for us. At least for me, I don't perceive much racial tension out here, save a few small pockets of people that are just kinda written off as crazy. Maybe its the way the media paints it, but out here people are seemingly drawn together more by common interests rather than race or background. I have a very diverse group of friends out here, is that not the norm in either Tulsa or Harrisburg? Coming from a relatively diverse background myself (mostly European decent, but my dads side of my family came from Venezuela) will assimilating ethnically be difficult in either place? Or am I just letting tv fill my head with preconceived notions?
Thanks for your responses everyone, they are much appreciated. I have a feeling the long cold winters will be our biggest shock. I've only gone up to the local mountains to see snow on a handful of day trips, and I've seen it falling once in my life. But I was able to escape back down the mountain to the 65° weather the same day lol! I hear both places can get pretty cold in the winter (I assume PA more so) but I think we'll get used to it.
I am starting to feel as if Harrisburg might be a better fit for us. I think back to our time in Orlando and all we had was Tampa. Not saying anything bad about either place, but we're so accustomed to a sprawling, densely populated area that it was kind of eerie driving 30 minutes in any direction from the middle of town, and being in the middle of nowhere. After 32 years of life there is still so much to explore here in California, whereas I felt I saw everything in 15 months in central Florida. I have the feeling OKC is to Tulsa what Tampa/St. Pete is to Orlando. Not saying that's a bad thing, just much different than what we're used to, we like to explore.
Interesting that ethnic demographics were brought up. I hadn't really thought of that. I hear about racial tension back east on the idiot box (maybe that makes me an idiot ;-) If that is the case, that will be somewhat new for us. At least for me, I don't perceive much racial tension out here, save a few small pockets of people that are just kinda written off as crazy. Maybe its the way the media paints it, but out here people are seemingly drawn together more by common interests rather than race or background. I have a very diverse group of friends out here, is that not the norm in either Tulsa or Harrisburg? Coming from a relatively diverse background myself (mostly European decent, but my dads side of my family came from Venezuela) will assimilating ethnically be difficult in either place? Or am I just letting tv fill my head with preconceived notions?
Here's the racial/ethnic composition of each metropolitan area...
Harrisburg
82.6% white
10.2% black
2.9% Asian
0.2% American Indian
2.4% multiracial
4.7% Hispanic
Tulsa
70.9% white
8.4% black
1.8% Asian
8.3% American Indian
6.4% multiracial
8.4% Hispanic
Harrisburg is whiter, blacker and more Asian. Tulsa is more American Indian, multiracial and Hispanic. Neither city is a paragon of multiculturalism, but nobody's getting lynched either.
As for location, Tulsa is about 100 miles from Oklahoma City, 250 miles from Kansas City, 300 miles from Dallas/Fort Worth, and 400 miles from St. Louis. Harrisburg is about 80 miles from Baltimore, 100 miles from Philadelphia, 120 miles from Washington DC, 150 miles from New York, and 200 miles from Pittsburgh.
Thank you, all great info, I'm glad there's some cultural diversity. Harrisburg definitely seems to have more surrounding it for day trips (which is what we like), and as far as Tulsa I think the DFW and other areas would have to be all weekend trips given that an extra hundred miles or so each way is not very fun with a little one.
Another question is about vehicles. Right now we have a little pontiac vibe that is an awesome little car, but for multiple reasons we are planning on moving up into something bigger. One reason is we're towing a u haul trailer for the move and the little vibe has a hard time just lugging us around! Also I'm 6'4" and when I have the drivers seat all the way back, our daughters car seat is fighting for the same space. I'm looking at Expeditions/Navigators, but I'm not sure if I should make 4wd priority #1. I hear it makes driving in snow much easier/safer especially for us with very little experience driving in those conditions. Also, I know tires make a huge difference. Would 4wd with some good all seasons be ok? And if we got rwd would it be wise to get a set of snow tires? And does Pennsylvania require emissions testing?
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