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My wife and I have been doing a lot of research, but figured it would be a good idea to post here for some input since everyones criteria and ideal living situation is different. My wife received a job offer to transfer within her design firm to either Austin or Denver. We're in DC right now where the cost of living is outrageous and you get no benefits in comparison to what you pay for - traffic, government, weather, crime, impossible to raise a family, and much more. One big factor we're considering in our search is that I will be launching a naturally leavened bakery concept I've been working on for several years. To start it'll be a cottage food business until I can find a permanent space for a trailer.
A little bit about us
We're 30 years old, very liberal, have two dogs and a cat, own a car, and will be renting (2,300 - 2,800/mo) until we find a good spot to buy a house. We never travel anywhere (cities or beach) for day or weekend trips, love local shops and restaurants, and are extremely active (gym, playing with the dogs, hiking). We've lived in DC (inside the district) for 4 years and never made any friends outside of a few coworkers, so we'd love to be in a place that's more friendly. Her denver office would be in LODO, and her Austin office would be just south of the Capitol on Congress. In either city we'd be renting a whole house and wouldn't want to live in any downtown area.
We put a little pro and con list together but would appreciate any input or insight you all have, maybe misconceptions we have, or general advice.
Austin
Pros
- Year round markets and growing season
- Great food scene
- Year round food truck/trailer parks
- Growing City
- Lower cost of living than Denver (not by much but still lower)
- Seems like a progressive city
Cons
- Hot hot summers and humidity (coming from DC it's not much different though (including heat index recently))
- Still in Texas
- Snakes, Scorpions, Mosquitos (my wife is deathly afraid of snakes)
Colorado
Pros
- Four distinct Seasons
- No humidity
- INTL airport for traveling
- Mountains/Outdoor lifestyle
- Wildlife and nature
Cons
- Landlocked
- Food scene seems pretty weak for a major city
- Limited growing season and outdoor markets
- Limited Food truck/trailer market
- Higher cost of living than Austin but still lower than DC
We left the typical traffic con off of our lists - if you've never lived or traveled in DC you'd know that moving to either of the cities above would be a cake walk.
Is the pay the same in both for her transfer? If not, take the higher pay one. Both cities are pretty similar in many ways, so might as well make more money.
If not, then it's a difficult choice for most people. For me, however, it would never be a difficult choice. I'm liberal and there is just no way, in today's political atmosphere, I'd voluntarily move to Texas. It's transitioning as a state to becoming more liberal, but who knows how long it'll take. Denver has already done quite well at flipping Colorado to being quite solidly blue. So since both cities are quite similar, I'd have to go with Denver based on one of the absolute biggest QOL issues: politics.
Aside from politics, it's up to your whether or not you can handle the long hot/humid Austin summers. I, personally, could not. Therefore, that's the second point for me to move to Denver.
If you're going to be moving to the suburbs, in order to combat any traffic issues, Denver has the public transit system compared to Austin. Your wife could quite easily commute via public transit from several suburbs to LoDo.
Where Austin would come out ahead, though, is the food. Austin has better food, but it doesn't make up for the politics or the long summers IMO.
These are very subjective factors, though. Neither one is bad, I would just personally prefer Denver.
Is the pay the same in both for her transfer? If not, take the higher pay one. Both cities are pretty similar in many ways, so might as well make more money.
The difference is negligible, which makes the decision even more tough! Appreciate the input, and I definitely see where you're coming from with the fact that Austin is Liberal but it's kind of stuck in a sea of red.
My wife and I have been doing a lot of research, but figured it would be a good idea to post here for some input since everyones criteria and ideal living situation is different. My wife received a job offer to transfer within her design firm to either Austin or Denver. We're in DC right now where the cost of living is outrageous and you get no benefits in comparison to what you pay for - traffic, government, weather, crime, impossible to raise a family, and much more. One big factor we're considering in our search is that I will be launching a naturally leavened bakery concept I've been working on for several years. To start it'll be a cottage food business until I can find a permanent space for a trailer.
A little bit about us
We're 30 years old, very liberal, have two dogs and a cat, own a car, and will be renting (2,300 - 2,800/mo) until we find a good spot to buy a house. We never travel anywhere (cities or beach) for day or weekend trips, love local shops and restaurants, and are extremely active (gym, playing with the dogs, hiking). We've lived in DC (inside the district) for 4 years and never made any friends outside of a few coworkers, so we'd love to be in a place that's more friendly. Her denver office would be in LODO, and her Austin office would be just south of the Capitol on Congress. In either city we'd be renting a whole house and wouldn't want to live in any downtown area.
We put a little pro and con list together but would appreciate any input or insight you all have, maybe misconceptions we have, or general advice.
Austin
Pros
- Year round markets and growing season
- Great food scene
- Year round food truck/trailer parks
- Growing City
- Lower cost of living than Denver (not by much but still lower)
- Seems like a progressive city
Cons
- Hot hot summers and humidity (coming from DC it's not much different though (including heat index recently))
- Still in Texas
- Snakes, Scorpions, Mosquitos (my wife is deathly afraid of snakes)
Colorado
Pros
- Four distinct Seasons
- No humidity
- INTL airport for traveling
- Mountains/Outdoor lifestyle
- Wildlife and nature
Cons
- Landlocked
- Food scene seems pretty weak for a major city
- Limited growing season and outdoor markets
- Limited Food truck/trailer market
- Higher cost of living than Austin but still lower than DC
We left the typical traffic con off of our lists - if you've never lived or traveled in DC you'd know that moving to either of the cities above would be a cake walk.
Thanks All!
Denver Airport is better. Austin's is newer but challenged to meet demand. The benefit is San Antonio's airport is 70 miles south for additional flights.
Denver Shopping for a metro of its size is underwhelming. Austin's has improved greatly the last 10 years.
Traffic flow and public transit in Denver is better too.
Milder Summers but rougher winters though not as brutal as the Midwest due to lots of sunshine.
Wildlife/Nature? Not really. Texas has tons of wildlife. Also in/west/north of the City are five lakes along the Colorado River (yes Texas has a Colorado river too). You are also on the eastern edge of the Texas Hill Country. Not 13,000 foot mountains but hiking and hills abound. If you like skiing then that's something not available in TX. I call it more even.
Proximity to other places for weekend getaways - Austin for sure, within 3 hours of Dallas and Houston and 80 miles north of San Antonio.
Craft brews are definitely bigger in Denver. Texas Hill Country is known for its wine industry (4th most by state) and tequila.
I lived in the Texas Triangle for several years (in DFW), and no amount of money in the world could convince me to move back there. The summers suck, and the outdoor recreation is underwhelming.
Politics
Colorado went blue after the last election primarily as an f you to Trump. Once he's out of office I fully expect the state to shift back to purple. Colorado Springs, the Eastern Plains, and the Western Slope are conservative, but they're slightly less Evangelical/socially conservative than the rural areas of Texas.
Food/Food Trucks
Austin has the better food scene by far, no argument there. When it comes to food trucks, though, Denver's coming on. We've got a ways to go to be like Austin, but there's a decent food truck scene downtown. Hell, we have a small food truck circuit here in the Tech Center, and it's in the burbs.
Farmer's Markets
The growing season is shorter and growing your own garden can be a challenge, but you really shouldn't sell the farmer's market/ag scene short. One of the nation's leading agricultural counties is in Eastern Colorado.
Your business
Denver's altitude could be a blessing or a curse if you're trying to launch a baking business. Doing all your R&D here would allow you to bake-in (pun intended) your high-altitude cooking directions. OTOH, I've heard more than a few people complain that baked goods like pizza crusts, bagels, etc, aren't as tasty here.
Outdoor recreation
Denver over Austin for everything except water recreation. Not a lot of water here, but hiking, biking, camping, and rock climbing are significantly better in Denver, and Denver has winter sports that Austin doesn't.
Austin has the "best" hiking of the major Texas metros, but it's a couple rungs below what Denver has to offer. Plus who the hell wants to hike in Austin in July or August when it's 90 degrees by 9 or 10am?
FWIW, the best outdoor recreation in Texas is out in far west Texas (Big Bend, Guadalupe Mountains, Palo Duro). Those areas area a good 6-8 hours from Austin, and are completely impractical for day trips. You could drive from Denver to Telluride or Durango in the same time, and you'd be treated to a much more scenic drive along the way.
Texas also doesn't have squat for public land. Over 90% of the state is privately owned. Colorado has roughly 4 times more public land and is less than half the size of the Lone Star State. There are probably more places to go back-country camping and backpacking within a 90 minute drive of Denver than there are in the entire state of Texas.
Transportation
I know you mentioned not including traffic in your evaluation because neither city is as bad as DC, but Austin's traffic is pretty hideous compared to Denver. With Austin's weak sauce public transportation you really don't have a whole lot of options when it comes to commuting, either. Denver has traffic issues, but we also have better public transportation across the board.
This is common sense, but Denver has a much better airport than Austin. Denver's flight operations and passenger volume are more than 2x greater than Austin and San Antonio combined. For a real airport and not just a regional one you have to go to Houston or DFW.
Climate
Don't underestimate Austin's summers. They're really lousy. What DC calls "The Heatwave of the Century," Austin calls June. Austin's average daily high is 90 or above from the first week of June until the middle of September, and the overnight lows during that same time-frame are in the 70s. Austin averages about 14 days of triple-digit heat per year to Denver's 2.
Now, Denver does have plenty of 90 degree days, but to me a 95 degree day in Denver is more tolerable than an 85-90 degree day in Austin. Low humidity means no heat index. 95 degrees in Denver "feels like" 90. It also cools off at night more here. It was in the 90s yesterday, but by 8pm our AC was off and our windows were open all night. It was in the lower 60s at sunrise. You will be running your air conditioning non-stop nearly all summer. Random temperature check. It's 99 in Austin right now. Heat index is 110. It's 97 in Denver. Heat index is 93.
FWIW, if it gets too hot in Denver just head up into the mountains. Idaho Springs and Georgetown are typically 10-15 degrees cooler than Denver, and they're less than an hour's drive from downtown when the traffic isn't heavy. Hill Country cities, OTOH, might be 5 degrees cooler than Austin if you're lucky.
Denver's winters aren't that bad. It gets cold occasionally, and we get a fair amount of snow, but in-between storms and cold snaps it's not uncommon for 50, 60, or even the occasional 70-degree day. We do have a long snow season. It can start snowing as soon as September, and end as late as mid-May, but it's usually the middle of October until the end of April. General rule of thumb is don't plant anything until after Mother's Day. Austin's summers are more consistently hot than Denver's winters are cold.
Scenery/Nature/Wildlife
Denver itself is on the plains, and the area around the city isn't lush and green. The far eastern areas of the metro are dry and treeless. Austin isn't exactly lush, either, but it definitely has more trees.
For me personally the Rockies over the Hill Country. The Hill Country is postage stamp-sized compared to the mountainous areas of Colorado. The vegetation of the Hill Country is generally sparse and squat,
while the forested areas around Denver above 7,500 feet have bigger trees than the Hill Country does.
We live on the southeast side of the metro area. We have deer, pronghorn, fox, coyotes, prairie dogs, and rabbits galore in our neighborhood. Occasionally we see snakes. The Front Range only has 1 species of venomous snake - the prairie rattler. You may see one, but bullsnakes are way more common (and bigger).
In the mountains the wildlife is more abundant - you'll see moose, brown bear, mountain lions (they'll see you more than you'll see them), bobcats, lynx, porcupines, elk, marmots, and pika to name a few.
I lived in the Texas Triangle for several years (in DFW), and no amount of money in the world could convince me to move back there. The summers suck, and the outdoor recreation is underwhelming..
This is great info and we very much appreciate the thoughtful response!
Denver doesn't seem like a city (to me) you move to for its urban amenities. Everything pretty spread out, and there are a lot of dead zones between the good areas. Austin's core is much more condensed and vibrant, and a lot more fun IMO. If you like to hike and ski, you can't beat Denver though. For me, I would much rather chill by the water in Austin and eat tacos.
Austin is among hottest places I've ever been. The humidity and heat is no joke, Denver is a lot more tame. Don't have to deal with snow in Austin though.
Both cities seem more libertarian than liberal to me. They're both very socially progressive, but I don't get a strong communal vibe, like you do in Berkeley or Madison. People love their cars in both places, they seem very individualistic - not sure how to explain it.
Austin airport is really nice, security is a breeze compared to Denver. Not sure how you would prefer Denver's airport unless you were traveling internationally often.
Denver doesn't seem like a city (to me) you move to for its urban amenities. Everything pretty spread out, and there are a lot of dead zones between the good areas. Austin's core is much more condensed and vibrant, and a lot more fun IMO. If you like to hike and ski, you can't beat Denver though. For me, I would much rather chill by the water in Austin and eat tacos.
Austin is among hottest places I've ever been. The humidity and heat is no joke, Denver is a lot more tame. Don't have to deal with snow in Austin though.
Both cities seem more libertarian than liberal to me. They're both very socially progressive, but I don't get a strong communal vibe, like you do in Berkeley or Madison. People love their cars in both places, they seem very individualistic - not sure how to explain it.
Austin airport is really nice, security is a breeze compared to Denver. Not sure how you would prefer Denver's airport unless you were traveling internationally often.
You think Austin offers more in the way of urban amenities than Denver does? Denver is also a very centralized city so I don't know where you're getting the idea that everything is spread out.
You think Austin offers more in the way of urban amenities than Denver does? Denver is also a very centralized city so I don't know where you're getting the idea that everything is spread out.
IMO, 6th St. in Austin was way more interesting than the 16th Street Mall in Denver when I visited. Also, downtown Denver feels more corporate and definitely felt kind of empty the weekend when I visited.
Honestly, my advice is stay in DC, but all three are great.
If Austin, avoid 6th street. Frat bros and hood rats hang out there. Hipsters hang out on Rainey st.
Bluescreen's post is pretty accurate.
Austin is beyond pretty progressive. Hilary crushed Donald here, I think 70% voted for Hilary. Denver is more purple, imo, but I lived in the burbs.
Big wins for Denver:
Weather
Airport
Skiing
Scenery in surrounding areas, though Austin isn't bad.
Neighborhoods, pretty much non existent in Texas cities
seems bigger, more going on in surrounding communities
Big wins for Austin:
food
university
hair more liberal (for you guys)
water sports
3 major cities within 4 hours
Neutral:
surrounding areas in both states are pretty conservative. I can't tell a difference, rural is rural right?
both have a ton of festivals
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Denver is also a very centralized city so I don't know where you're getting the idea that everything is spread out.
