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The thing about Broad Ripple is that the neighborhood streets are walkable, but you have to drive into Broad Ripple and try to find a business to park at on the main strip. It's walkable internally, but not really to anywhere else. There are some nice restaurants in Broad Ripple, but outside of that, the main strip is just a tacky boozing area.
I completely agree the neighborhoods closer to downtown that you mentioned and Irvington have more of a future than Broad Ripple IMO. If these neighborhoods do take off, many are still in the early stages of doing so. There's probably money to be made in the real estate of some of those markets.
Agree completely. That's what I was trying to say....you just did it much more clearly and concisely haha.
I agree with a lot of this, with the exception of a few points. I would say that Broad Ripple is pretty walkable. The issue is that there's no where to really walk to from Broad Ripple, other than South Broad Ripple (can't bring myself to use the SoBro name haha). It's just a little too disconnected from the core, which is where pretty much everything else in the city is happening. The Monon is a great asset, but i'm not walking it from downtown to BR (do bike it, though). I think the BRT line along College could drastically change this, and will hopefully be the shot in the arm Broad Ripple needs to fully become what it is capable of being. However, it will be close to a decade before we will truly be able to tell.
I'm curious as to why you say Fountain Square is not very happening. I would have guessed that this would have been the neighborhood in Indy you would be the most fond of. Especially when paired with nearby Fletcher Place, I think this is a pretty "happening" area, and the bars/restaurants have been receiving a ton of attention lately, even some nationally. What do you feel it is lacking? Or what do you feel contributes to your perception of it not being a "happening" place? Not being snarky, just genuinely curious. 65 cutting through the middle of the two neighborhoods hurts, but the Cultural Trail has done wonders in connecting the area back to downtown. There's been a lot of attention and investment paid to neighboring Bates Hendricks and Garfield Park recently as well. I think in a few years, you'll have 4 pretty solid neighborhoods abutting each other, with Fountain Square being the centerpiece of one contiguous, walkable area, with easy access to Downtown. Going east of Ftn Sq though....different story.
I think E 10th has a ton of potential. The Dorman St development is encouraging (along with the circle city industrial complex) and reminds me of a similar area off of New York St, Highland Park, that has been really successful. Similar to the neighborhoods referenced above, I think the Near East Side from Washington up to 10th, encompassing Holy Cross (my neighborhood), Englewood, Cottage Home, Woodruff Place, etc will continue to attract investment, people and retail. 10th is still rough, and the further east you get, the harder of a sell it is, but this is one of the few areas that still has it's urban "bones" largely intact from when it was a commercial corridor for the surrounding neighborhoods. It will take time, but I think 10th from Emerson to College (where it meets Mass Ave) will be one of the next areas to have a re-birth, so to speak.
Old Northside/Herron Morton continue to boom. Some exciting developments happening there to add density, as well as good restaurants. The Kroger on 16th needs to either be remodeled, or sold and redeveloped. That parcel is pretty critical to the neighborhood's future, but it doesn't seem like Kroger is willing to play ball, unfortunately.
As for the near Westside, 16 tech just secured money to move forward, which could have huge implications for not just that neighborhood, but for the city as a player in the BioScience research world. Plans call for eventual apartments/retail. This will tie in nicely with the IUPUI campus, as well as the trails/greenways/WRSP/canal on that side of downtown. If only they could come up with a solid proposal for that damn GM stamping plant...
This post is absolutely the byproduct of pounding a Monster on my lunch break, but the point I'm making is that in just a few years, I don't think the argument will be able to be made that Indy is strictly a downtown city any longer. You'll have a continuous ring of actual neighborhoods surrounding downtown on all sides, some stretching a few miles out from the core. (I think it is similar to Nashville and Charlotte in this regard, they are just progressing much faster). While it won't look the same as all the old, dense cities people love to downplay Indy in favor of, the function of these neighborhoods won't be too dissimilar. It will just take time. As you're aware, Indy isn't really a boom or bust type place. We just keep slowly (sometimes too slowly for my tastes) and consistently continuing to improve and develop.
This is just a great, well informed post. It sounds like you have studied, biked and walked, Indy's urban areas just like me.
Broad Ripple does have several blocks of street level retail and certainly some nice bars (many are tacky though) and eats , but it is just the vibe I have literally never seen it jammed packed active, except the little bar strip on a Saturday night. Have you been into the heart of St Matthews in Louisville? Reminds me more of that, a nice inner ring suburb, good cross density, and sure, maybe 60 or 70 retail outlets and shops, yet it just does not feel true urban. Certainly being in the "middle of nowhere" i.e. 7 mins to Fashion mall yet 10 blocks south on college and its the hood contributes.
Your post about east 10th st is spot on... I would like to see development continue to March east and I think it will since Woodruff Place is relatively intact except for a few scattered trouble makers/section 8s, etc. You know what I mean. I could even see New York east of downtown doing something...it has the bones, and would fill in that whole area. Think of what downtown has done since 1990. Now picture this area being similar, but more neighborhood oriented by say, 2040.
We disagree about the near westside. I am such an urban nerd that when I have meetings in Indy and they get out early, I will drive or rent a bikeshare (LOVE THEM) and explore the urban grid, block by block. I just think the near west side has soonooo long to go and I cannot see it "popping" anytime soon. Sure, stuff is happening. But nothing is going to change it from a pretty poor, more of a run down or even Hispanic immigrant area anytime soon. I think that will be "working" class Indy Speedway type guys, and you have a nice little Hispanic section on west washington. Always contributes to the bigger city feel (seriously, go to La Posada and thank me later)
The transit and TOD for Charlotte is a game changer. What is the status of BRT in Indy? That is a help, but not the answer. Indy needs rail, and it needs it bad! Until a line is built, maybe starting with the northside into downtown, and doing a chicago like "loop" around the mile square, I just cannot see Indy taking the next step to be the truly urban "big city" it so badly wants to be. And thats a shame as I really like the bones in Indy better than Charlotte. So, I am torn. I pick Charlotte, mainly because of rail and the TODs popping up. But I do like what Indy is doing. We will see in 30 years if "slow and steady wins the race!"
And we all know I love some Nashville. I almost moved there from Florida, but I ended up in Louisville as I like its urban bones and kinetic energy better, and its closer to midwest markets I service.
This is just a great, well informed post. It sounds like you have studied, biked and walked, Indy's urban areas just like me.
Broad Ripple does have several blocks of street level retail and certainly some nice bars (many are tacky though) and eats , but it is just the vibe I have literally never seen it jammed packed active, except the little bar strip on a Saturday night. Have you been into the heart of St Matthews in Louisville? Reminds me more of that, a nice inner ring suburb, good cross density, and sure, maybe 60 or 70 retail outlets and shops, yet it just does not feel true urban. Certainly being in the "middle of nowhere" i.e. 7 mins to Fashion mall yet 10 blocks south on college and its the hood contributes.
Your post about east 10th st is spot on... I would like to see development continue to March east and I think it will since Woodruff Place is relatively intact except for a few scattered trouble makers/section 8s, etc. You know what I mean. I could even see New York east of downtown doing something...it has the bones, and would fill in that whole area. Think of what downtown has done since 1990. Now picture this area being similar, but more neighborhood oriented by say, 2040.
We disagree about the near westside. I am such an urban nerd that when I have meetings in Indy and they get out early, I will drive or rent a bikeshare (LOVE THEM) and explore the urban grid, block by block. I just think the near west side has soonooo long to go and I cannot see it "popping" anytime soon. Sure, stuff is happening. But nothing is going to change it from a pretty poor, more of a run down or even Hispanic immigrant area anytime soon. I think that will be "working" class Indy Speedway type guys, and you have a nice little Hispanic section on west washington. Always contributes to the bigger city feel (seriously, go to La Posada and thank me later)
The transit and TOD for Charlotte is a game changer. What is the status of BRT in Indy? That is a help, but not the answer. Indy needs rail, and it needs it bad! Until a line is built, maybe starting with the northside into downtown, and doing a chicago like "loop" around the mile square, I just cannot see Indy taking the next step to be the truly urban "big city" it so badly wants to be. And thats a shame as I really like the bones in Indy better than Charlotte. So, I am torn. I pick Charlotte, mainly because of rail and the TODs popping up. But I do like what Indy is doing. We will see in 30 years if "slow and steady wins the race!"
And we all know I love some Nashville. I almost moved there from Florida, but I ended up in Louisville as I like its urban bones and kinetic energy better, and its closer to midwest markets I service.
Broad Ripple is in an identity crisis. Many believe the district must reinvent itself for the long term and embrace height and density. The zealots on the BRVA, on the other hand, cling to a 20th century vision of a village neighborhood of small, single family homes.
Broad Ripple is in an identity crisis. Many believe the district must reinvent itself for the long term and embrace height and density. The zealots on the BRVA, on the other hand, cling to a 20th century vision of a village neighborhood of small, single family homes.
Yeah, I have a good friend form college who is one of those NIMBYs lol. Broad Ripple would be better (and more authentic) if it was more like say, Kirkwood in Bloomington. That is the type of area Indy needs. BTW, I am not sure it needs to "reinvent itself." It will always be in a nice area, esp w Meridian-Kessler next door basically.
Broad Ripple does have several blocks of street level retail and certainly some nice bars (many are tacky though) and eats , but it is just the vibe I have literally never seen it jammed packed active
Your post about east 10th st is spot on... I would like to see development continue to March east and I think it will since Woodruff Place is relatively intact except for a few scattered trouble makers/section 8s, etc. You know what I mean. I could even see New York east of downtown doing something...it has the bones, and would fill in that whole area. Think of what downtown has done since 1990. Now picture this area being similar, but more neighborhood oriented by say, 2040.
As far as BR, it is jammed most warm Saturday afternoons. This past Saturday it was 72 degrees, and it was crawling with people all over the district. On a random Tuesday afternoon, not always the case. BR is at a crossroads, yes, it will likely be a nice area regardless. What kind of nice area, that is up in the air right now. BR sold its soul to those goofy bars long ago, I think a return to its more artsy roots is out of the question.
As far as East 10th, I think it more likely that 10th between Sherman and College has a re-birth. I don't think Indy moves fast enough for much of a change to happen past Sherman. Nor does it really need it, Little Flower and Emerson Heights are already nice residential areas, and Linwood Square is already a suburban atrocity dropped into that urban fabric. There are a lot of stakeholders focused on the corridor, and as Circle City Industrial is built up, it will only serve to bring more eyes onto East 10th. I don't think East New York Street is going to see much of a re-birth outside of the residential. They are planning to add protected bike lanes between College and Eastern Ave, I see East New York as as primarily residential corridor. I do think East Washington Street can be re-born, to a degree. A cidery is setting up shop at Washington and Hamilton, with one of their stated objectives being assisting that neighborhood in its rebirth. They even went as far as to call Willard Park the next Fountain Square. We'll see.
Last edited by Toxic Toast; 02-26-2016 at 06:53 AM..
This is just a great, well informed post. It sounds like you have studied, biked and walked, Indy's urban areas just like me.
The transit and TOD for Charlotte is a game changer. What is the status of BRT in Indy? That is a help, but not the answer. Indy needs rail, and it needs it bad! Until a line is built, maybe starting with the northside into downtown, and doing a chicago like "loop" around the mile square, I just cannot see Indy taking the next step to be the truly urban "big city" it so badly wants to be. And thats a shame as I really like the bones in Indy better than Charlotte. So, I am torn. I pick Charlotte, mainly because of rail and the TODs popping up. But I do like what Indy is doing. We will see in 30 years if "slow and steady wins the race!"
And we all know I love some Nashville. I almost moved there from Florida, but I ended up in Louisville as I like its urban bones and kinetic energy better, and its closer to midwest markets I service.
If you're going to have effective public transit, you need a lot of people in a small area, or traffic so bad that people prefer to use the public transit. Indy doesn't really fit the bill there. There's no natural barriers around Indy for at all, so people can keep sprawling and keep density low, reducing the need for transit. Traffic isn't bad in Indy aside from a few areas that bog down during rush hours. I don't see why Indy would need rail at all for the foreseeable future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Toast
As far as BR, it is jammed most warm Saturday afternoons. This past Saturday it was 72 degrees, and it was crawling with people all over the district. On a random Tuesday afternoon, not always the case. BR is at a crossroads, yes, it will likely be a nice area regardless. What kind of nice area, that is up in the air right now. BR sold its soul to those goofy bars long ago, I think a return to its more artsy roots is out of the question.
BR was the first neighborhood I really saw in Indy. When I came for the interview, I stopped at Three Wise Men for lunch and picked up one of those Nuvo magazines. I was hoping that BR was something like Asheville or Louisville's Highlands, but the more I went down there, the more I was just put off by the bars. I like a drink and like going to bars, but it's bar overload down there. Anything else that's going on in the neighborhood just seems to get overlooked by all the bars.
If you're going to have effective public transit, you need a lot of people in a small area, or traffic so bad that people prefer to use the public transit. Indy doesn't really fit the bill there. There's no natural barriers around Indy for at all, so people can keep sprawling and keep density low, reducing the need for transit. Traffic isn't bad in Indy aside from a few areas that bog down during rush hours. I don't see why Indy would need rail at all for the foreseeable future.
But Charlotte doesn't really fit the bill either, yet it has LRT.
But Charlotte doesn't really fit the bill either, yet it has LRT.
Charlotte is a good bit bigger than Indy, far more congested the times I've been there, and is growing faster. I'm not sure whether or not there is truly a need for rail in Charlotte (I'm the least familiar with it out of these three cities), but I think there is at least more rationale for it going forward.
Charlotte is a good bit bigger than Indy, far more congested the times I've been there, and is growing faster. I'm not sure whether or not there is truly a need for rail in Charlotte (I'm the least familiar with it out of these three cities), but I think there is at least more rationale for it going forward.
I was basing it off your rationale that there needed to be density. AFAIK, Charlotte isn't denser than Indy. Perhaps (car) congestion is a key factor.
I was basing it off your rationale that there needed to be density. AFAIK, Charlotte isn't denser than Indy. Perhaps (car) congestion is a key factor.
I don't think it is either in practical terms. With the Unigov in Indy, there are places in the "city limits" that are by all accounts rural - come in from I-74 and once you get into Marion County, it's nothing but corn fields for a couple of miles. I'm guessing Charlotte's borders are more in line with the actual city.
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