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This is just a great, well informed post. It sounds like you have studied, biked and walked, Indy's urban areas just like me.
Broad Ripple does have several blocks of street level retail and certainly some nice bars (many are tacky though) and eats , but it is just the vibe I have literally never seen it jammed packed active, except the little bar strip on a Saturday night. Have you been into the heart of St Matthews in Louisville? Reminds me more of that, a nice inner ring suburb, good cross density, and sure, maybe 60 or 70 retail outlets and shops, yet it just does not feel true urban. Certainly being in the "middle of nowhere" i.e. 7 mins to Fashion mall yet 10 blocks south on college and its the hood contributes.
Your post about east 10th st is spot on... I would like to see development continue to March east and I think it will since Woodruff Place is relatively intact except for a few scattered trouble makers/section 8s, etc. You know what I mean. I could even see New York east of downtown doing something...it has the bones, and would fill in that whole area. Think of what downtown has done since 1990. Now picture this area being similar, but more neighborhood oriented by say, 2040.
We disagree about the near westside. I am such an urban nerd that when I have meetings in Indy and they get out early, I will drive or rent a bikeshare (LOVE THEM) and explore the urban grid, block by block. I just think the near west side has soonooo long to go and I cannot see it "popping" anytime soon. Sure, stuff is happening. But nothing is going to change it from a pretty poor, more of a run down or even Hispanic immigrant area anytime soon. I think that will be "working" class Indy Speedway type guys, and you have a nice little Hispanic section on west washington. Always contributes to the bigger city feel (seriously, go to La Posada and thank me later)
The transit and TOD for Charlotte is a game changer. What is the status of BRT in Indy? That is a help, but not the answer. Indy needs rail, and it needs it bad! Until a line is built, maybe starting with the northside into downtown, and doing a chicago like "loop" around the mile square, I just cannot see Indy taking the next step to be the truly urban "big city" it so badly wants to be. And thats a shame as I really like the bones in Indy better than Charlotte. So, I am torn. I pick Charlotte, mainly because of rail and the TODs popping up. But I do like what Indy is doing. We will see in 30 years if "slow and steady wins the race!"
And we all know I love some Nashville. I almost moved there from Florida, but I ended up in Louisville as I like its urban bones and kinetic energy better, and its closer to midwest markets I service.
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
I don't think we really disagree on the near westside...the near south, east, and north will certainly attract the most investment in the short term. West street is such an imposing barrier from DT, and then you have IUPUI and parks and a river to cross before you even get to the actual neighborhoods. Some stuff happening in Speedway is encouraging (didn't think I'd be typing that sentence 5 years ago) and Great Places 2020 (worth a look on google if you're not familiar) has identified West Michigan and King as a focus area, so that's cool. Generally speaking, though, the near westside faces the most obstacles, and I agree, will take the longest, if ever, to thrive. I just thought 16 Tech was worth highlighting as it's SOMETHING to write about in an area of town that usually has little to write about outside of IUPUI. I'll check out La Posada.
I think rail is pretty much a no-go in my lifetime in Indy. The state government has basically said as much (gotta love those guys). BRT is ready to roll from the city's perspective, but it is dependent on Federal Funding to start construction, which apparently is not as sure a thing as some originally thought. Will definitely be worth monitoring over the next year. In a city where transit is dysfunctional at best, and non-existent at worst, I'm more than happy with BRT at this point. Obviously rail is preferred, but I just don't think it's in the cards, unfortunately.
It sounds like the only thing (in this thread at least haha) we do disagree on slightly is Nashville. To me, Nashville reminds me of the movie "Inception" from a few years back. Everyone was raving about it. Went to see it, and was like..."It's fine, but I don't understand what all the fuss is about". I've been probably 10 times in the last few years to play/record/see shows, etc. Every time I get myself all psyched up, and every time I spend about 4 hours on 65 N on the way home wondering what it is that everyone is seeing that I'm not. I don't think Nashville is a bad place at all, just maybe over-hyped. Did have the best barbecue of my life at some little hole in the wall place in East Nashville, so there's that I guess.
As far as BR, it is jammed most warm Saturday afternoons. This past Saturday it was 72 degrees, and it was crawling with people all over the district. On a random Tuesday afternoon, not always the case. BR is at a crossroads, yes, it will likely be a nice area regardless. What kind of nice area, that is up in the air right now. BR sold its soul to those goofy bars long ago, I think a return to its more artsy roots is out of the question.
As far as East 10th, I think it more likely that 10th between Sherman and College has a re-birth. I don't think Indy moves fast enough for much of a change to happen past Sherman. Nor does it really need it, Little Flower and Emerson Heights are already nice residential areas, and Linwood Square is already a suburban atrocity dropped into that urban fabric. There are a lot of stakeholders focused on the corridor, and as Circle City Industrial is built up, it will only serve to bring more eyes onto East 10th. I don't think East New York Street is going to see much of a re-birth outside of the residential. They are planning to add protected bike lanes between College and Eastern Ave, I see East New York as as primarily residential corridor. I do think East Washington Street can be re-born, to a degree. A cidery is setting up shop at Washington and Hamilton, with one of their stated objectives being assisting that neighborhood in its rebirth. They even went as far as to call Willard Park the next Fountain Square. We'll see.
Now that I think about it, you're right; 10th between College and Sherman is much more realistic than all the way to Emerson. And I really hope the cidery is just the first step in a lot of investment along Washington there, as it's just a few blocks from my house. Really wish the new AL HQ would have gone through, but I think even without it, a "next Fountain Square" is not too far a stretch to imagine. If the second BRT line down Washington from the airport to the east side gets built, I think it would be a no brainer, but I'm waiting for the first line to get started before I get too excited about anything beyond that.
just to add to the thread, charlotte is hosting the all star game next year and they're building all types of buildings/parking decks/etc to support the incoming crowds...also they're expanding the trains. just thought i'd throw that in there to help ppl make a decision.
lastly, gentrification is happening all over the city so a lot of stuff now will be torn down and replaced shortly. some places already have been torn down. condos and skyscrapers will replace the buildings in these areas.
Charlotte hosted one before back in 91 but this feels much bigger congrats to Charlotte and since basketball is soooo big in NC so I'm sure it will do really well......I have to say on a sidenote while I do think Charlotte and Nashville are ahead some might be selling Indy short I don't know to much to say but it might not be as far behind as some may think.
It sounds like the only thing (in this thread at least haha) we do disagree on slightly is Nashville. To me, Nashville reminds me of the movie "Inception" from a few years back. Everyone was raving about it. Went to see it, and was like..."It's fine, but I don't understand what all the fuss is about".
Inception was a terrible movie. The overhype stems from the music scene, largely. The hipsters and yupsters have taken over the popular venues, pretend to like country music, and that the bland vegan food is the best thing they have ever had. The fuss however has more to do with our economy rather than our unique culture. The numbers show exceptional population, job, and commercial growth. A few of the largest growing industries nationally, happen to be our major industries (music, healthcare, hospitality), which separates us from more financial/corporate Charlotte, and more life sciences/tech based Indianapolis.[/quote]
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I've been probably 10 times in the last few years to play/record/see shows, etc. Every time I get myself all psyched up, and every time I spend about 4 hours on 65 N on the way home wondering what it is that everyone is seeing that I'm not. I don't think Nashville is a bad place at all, just maybe over-hyped.
It appears that you were mainly on Broadway, and had a meal or two in East Nashville. If that is all you saw then it is no surprise you were let down. Those areas are not the best representation/complete picture of what the area has to offer.
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Did have the best barbecue of my life at some little hole in the wall place in East Nashville, so there's that I guess.
Nashville, better scene than Charlotte. Up tight home to bankers in Billy graham country
Lolol...someone disparaging Charlotte as "Billy Graham country" in favor of a city that could rightfully be called the epicenter of the Religious Right.
Lolol...someone disparaging Charlotte as "Billy Graham country" in favor of a city that could rightfully be called the epicenter of the Religious Right.
I thought the same thing. Nashville's religious extremists hide behind trendy clothes and copy popular music styles...but at the end of the day, they are still selling Jesus lol. I have personally witnessed church recruiters on a regular basis in liberal enclaves such as coffee shops, trendy restaurants, and places many young people hang out. Nashville is very in your face religious.
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