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I've always found that point to be rather debatable, or at the least misleading. Rock 'n roll didn't originate in Cleveland but the phrase was first coined there and the first concert happened there; it's not quite the same as New Orleans and jazz which is where the genre actually originated.
That's true, as is the fact that so many legendary New Orleans jazz artists actually left New Orleans for Chicago, New York, etc. Couldn't wait to leave the discrimination and racism that was so prevalent in that city, and still has its issues today. So it originated there, but also left and spread, taking on different forms in other cities as well. This shouldn't be forgotten either. Anyway, it's currently the genre which produces the least amount of sales in the country in the modern ages, for better or worse.
That's true, as is the fact that so many legendary New Orleans jazz artists actually left New Orleans for Chicago, New York, etc. Couldn't wait to leave the discrimination and racism that was so prevalent in that city, and still has its issues today. So it originated there, but also left and spread, taking on different forms in other cities as well. This shouldn't be forgotten either. Anyway, it's currently the genre which produces the least amount of sales in the country in the modern ages, for better or worse.
The culture is still there. Anyone who's truly experienced New Orleans has been made well aware that it is ground zero for American music.
The culture is still there. Anyone who's truly experienced New Orleans has been made well aware that it is ground zero for American music.
There is no ground zero of American music. There are scenes throughout the United states and the world that really excel at one genre or another. Detroit probably has had at least as much influence as New Orleans in the 20th century. Hip hop in NYC and LA, grunge in Seattle, and now today some cities are becoming huge for different genres. Those don't count?
...This is another piece of your anecdotal evidence against Cleveland that should send up warning flags as to your credibility among any perceptive judge of credibility...
...Once again, this post IS a perfect example of why you are a Cleveland basher. Your statements about Cleveland are factually erroneous and you seek to magnify specific incidents into negative generalities.
When persons challenge your false assertions, their replies become "old and tiresome." Obviously a basher has to insult and belittle anybody who challenges his ridiculousness.
You've proven repeatedly that, for whatever reason, you not only lack objectivity about Cleveland, but that you are a dedicated Cleveland basher...
Ironically, what you're accusing maxmodder of doing also aptly describes the m.o. you employ to bash forum members who back you against the wall. The sad truth is that you've locked yourself into one of the worst city vs. city contests ever launched. Rather than painfully prolong the struggle and bury Cleveland even further, just extract yourself from the mess as quietly as possible.
There is no ground zero of American music. There are scenes throughout the United states and the world that really excel at one genre or another. Detroit probably has had at least as much influence as New Orleans in the 20th century. Hip hop in NYC and LA, grunge in Seattle, and now today some cities are becoming huge for different genres. Those don't count?
Those cities certainly played an important roll in the cultivation of popular music, but when we're discussing the very musical foundations of each American musical genre, New Orleans is inarguably the center. Even in 2016 there is no other city in which music makes up such a large part of the every day culture. There's no city that cares more about music than New Orleans.
There is no city in the U.S. of Cleveland's size with its musical heritage.
Consider that classical music is centuries old. Greater Cleveland is home to not only one of the world's best orchestras, but also some of the world's best classical music venues. It's the home of two of the nation's best music conservatories.
Cleveland has had an active jazz and blues tradition dating back to the Great Migration.
Oberlin has been a jazz center for decades and now is the home of one of the nation's most acclaimed jazz conservatories. Nighttown is one of the nation's most acclaimed jazz clubs, and Cleveland has an active blues tradition that rivals rock genres in popularity.
Most of the posters on this forum seemingly have no grasp of the importance of American European classical music on the evolution of jazz. Even Louis Armstrong would cross over and play classical music. Wynton Marsalis continues to promote that connection.
Even today there are great jazz moments in Cleveland that can't be found in many places in the U.S. Imagine Marsalis' Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra performing before 5,000 under the Blossom Music Center Pavilion with many more thousands on the lawn, as well as with one of the best orchestras in the world.
As a terminus on the underground railroad, and a hotbed of abolitionism, Cleveland was a tolerant city to a degree not imagined in southern cities. That's not say that Cleveland, one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the U.S., didn't have racial, ethnic and religious discrimination. It did.
So it's not surprising that Cleveland was the place that rock 'n roll not only was named, but where in many ways, from some of Elvis Presley's earliest concerts north of the Mason Dixie line, to the first rock concert, to rock shows on mainline radio stations, to the great disc jockeys who spread the word to the likes of NYC, Cleveland became a bastion of rock 'n roll in ways not possible in southern cities still practicing overt discrimination.
Cleveland is not a one-trick pony when it comes to music. It obviously can't hold a candle to New Orleans in several musical genres, but that's also true when it come to comparing classical music in New Orleans with Cleveland.
As far as rock 'n roll, from Rock Hall induction ceremonies to the annual Moondog Coronation Ball, there are still special rock moments in Cleveland, apart from the several popular rock venues.
The Alternative Press was founded and is based in Cleveland, and the popular Alternative Press Convention always has been held in Cleveland, until supplanted this year by the Republican National Convention.
I think posters in this thread have a good grasp of culture in New Orleans, but, led by some disgusting Cleveland bashers, there is little grasp of culture in Cleveland.
Despite claims to the contrary by Peter1948, Cleveland does have a world-class art museum, which also is performance centric with annual programs featuring world masters in the performing arts. The New York Times has recently noted that the Cleveland Orchestra has a good claim to being the best in the U.S. And Playhouse Square is one of the best performing arts complexes in the U.S. with acclaimed residential companies as well as one of the nation's very best annual line-ups of touring Broadway plays. Facts.
Check out tripadvisor.com. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum, the CMA, the Cleveland Orchestra at Severance Hall, and Playhouse Square are popular tourist destinations, with many international tourists attracted to Cleveland.
There's is a reason that Cleveland has recently been promoted as one of the best tourist destinations in the world. Cleveland bashers have bashed their credibility in the C-D forum IMO. Perhaps they would like to explain why Travel + Leisure, Fodor's, the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, etc., don't know what they're talking about. I suspect they will try.
That's true, as is the fact that so many legendary New Orleans jazz artists actually left New Orleans for Chicago, New York, etc. Couldn't wait to leave the discrimination and racism that was so prevalent in that city, and still has its issues today. So it originated there, but also left and spread, taking on different forms in other cities as well. This shouldn't be forgotten either. Anyway, it's currently the genre which produces the least amount of sales in the country in the modern ages, for better or worse.
They left for jobs; folks fleeing the South for the North encountered just as much racism and discrimination up there, just in different forms.
Jazz originated in New Orleans but never left; rather, it became a cultural exporter of the genre.
(Shakes head). Clevelanders just don't want to admit that New Orleans is more interesting in terms of cuisine, has a better music venue for jazz and blues, has a more rich cultural history, etc. Instead they want to prop Cleveland up to be this cultural mecca that no other U.S. city can match. Look at the poll in this thread and you'll see which city is truly winning this battle. Clevelanders know it too. I'm actually a fan of Cleveland..it is much like my hometown city of St. Louis but even I know when to quit...New Orleans is a unique cultural mecca that Cleveland can never hope to match.
There's no city that cares more about music than New Orleans.
Conceit. The support of musical institutions and musical heritage in Cleveland is very pronounced.
A big reason that the Rock Hall is in Cleveland is because no other city in the U.S. was willing to ante up the funds and to nurture the institution. Cleveland still loves rock 'n roll, arguably more than any other place in the U.S. Consider that a Rock Hall Annex in NYC flopped.
The musical community still marvels how Cleveland, a city among the most impacted by the destruction of the American manufacturing economy, still supports one of the world's best orchestras in such grand style with both a modernized Severance Hall and Blossom Music Center.
I've spent weeks enjoying music and restaurants in New Orleans. Some of my great moments in life have been seeing Pete Fountain at his Hilton Riverside Club, dining at Antoine's, Arnaud's, and the Commodore Palace, and, in its early days, eating at K-Paul's when red fish still was abundant, and chatting with an already obese Paul Prudhomme in his corner at K-Paul's.
I doubt that you've ever set foot in Severance Hall or Blossom Music Center, among other places in the world from which I hold cherished memories.
The ignorance espoused by you and others in this thread is pronounced IMO.
They left for jobs; folks fleeing the South for the North encountered just as much racism and discrimination up there, just in different forms.
Jazz originated in New Orleans but never left; rather, it became a cultural exporter of the genre.
Why couldn't they get jobs?
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Cleveland as a musical center
