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Seriously, before this thread I assumed the city's primary role in American music was generally accepted. It seems the only time this is argued is when it looks like a threat to another city's musical reputation (looking at you, Atlanta).
I'm not a New Orleanian. In fact, none of the posters I see here are.
On the other hand, are there any posters here boosting Cleveland that aren't from Cleveland?
Yes, like C-D posters, many of whom have never visited Cleveland let alone its great cultural institutions, are the final arbiters of all things cultural!
I suggest you instead read the NY Times, which regularly covers the Cleveland Orchestra, the Cleveland Museum of Art and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum.
The problem is that many Cleveland posters know well what Cleveland is and what New Orleans is, and so are we supposed to concede the ridiculousness posted in this thread is accurate???
As I read this thread, I would love to ask many of the posters on the spot if they know who Dave Brubeck is, as I suspect many of the posters here are actually fairly ignorant about even jazz.
Good lord this is getting ridiculous. "See for yourself" is the definition of subjective, not objective. Seriously guys? Like, for real?
You speak like most people I've met who have never been to New Orleans, so it was only natural for me to suggest that you actually see the city for yourself in order to know what I know.
But if you want something objective detailing things that most people here already know...um, okay, here's a video I guess:
Quote:
I've never seen such a concentration of blatant disregard for anything halfway resembling an intellectual conversation. Congrats New Orleans and its city data apostles!
I would say that I've never seen such blind homerism, but that would be a lie, because I've been a City Data member for years.
Yes, like C-D posters, many of whom have never visited Cleveland let alone its great cultural institutions, are the final arbiters of all things cultural.
I suggest you instead read the NY Times, which regularly covers the Cleveland Orchestra, the Cleveland Museum of Art and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum.
The problem is that many Cleveland posters know well what Cleveland is and what New Orleans is, and so are we supposed to concede the ridiculousness posted in this thread is accurate???
I can't speak for the other posters here, but I know I've been to Cleveland (summer of '12 most recently). It's a fine city but my experiences there cannot begin to compare to those in New Orleans.
You speak like most people I've met who have never been to New Orleans, so it was only natural for me to suggest that you actually see the city for yourself in order to know what I know.
But if you want something objective detailing things that most people here already know...um, okay, here's a video I guess:
I would say that I've never seen such blind homerism, but that would be a lie, because I've been a City Data member for years.
Bjimmy, WRnative, and Cleverfield are well known on this board for their pro Cleveland bias. I used to live 2 hours from New Orleans and visited there almost every other weekend. None of them have as much experience with both locations as I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunion Powder
I can't speak for the other posters here, but I know I've been to Cleveland (summer of '12 most recently). It's a fine city but my experiences there cannot begin to compare to those in New Orleans.
Inb4 the reason is because you just didn't visit the right places in Cleveland. *rolls eyes*
Quick history lesson: there was a mass migration from the South to the North in the 20th century, roughly from 1920-1970, in search of jobs in the industrialized urban centers in the Northeast and Midwest from the rural, agrarian South. The migration also included folks migrating from the rural South to the urban South, so a city like New Orleans wouldn't have experienced as much outflow as other areas of the South.
Come on, the constant claims that Beachwood Place, the most high-end mall in NEO is going downhill is nothing but veiled racism, because black people shop there too. The mall is expanding, has renovated numerous times in recent years, and has the only Nordstrom and Saks in NEO. It is not declining. Ooooh but BLACK PEOPLE shop there. It must be going downhill, because that's what the narrative says about why the mid-range malls declined *hint, they are in decline across the country because of online shopping*.
There's an old Cleveland and a New Cleveland. The Old Cleveland is the from the era of White Flight, and blue collar disinvestment. They hate everything urban, love everything suburban, and are afraid of the city. New Clevelanders are more educated and worldly. They love the city, don't like the suburbs, and realize that Cleveland is not as bad or scary and dangerous as their parents told them. They see the potential, and are DOING THINGS to bring that potential out. Many of the Cleveland ex-pats are Old Cleveland who sit around moaning about the city's decline, and running away when black people move to their neighborhood. Good riddance to them. The New Clevelanders are bringing this city back, the first step is purging it of the negativity, apathy, and racism of the Old Clevelanders.
Last edited by Cleverfield; 03-07-2016 at 12:26 PM..
I can't speak for the other posters here, but I know I've been to Cleveland (summer of '12 most recently). It's a fine city but my experiences there cannot begin to compare to those in New Orleans.
Cleveland is not a great tourist city. It is however a great city to live.
Ironically, what you're accusing maxmodder of doing also aptly describes the m.o. you employ to bash forum members who back you against the wall. The sad truth is that you've locked yourself into one of the worst city vs. city contests ever launched. Rather than painfully prolong the struggle and bury Cleveland even further, just extract yourself from the mess as quietly as possible.
Aren't you the guy who claimed that there was nothing worth seeing north of Columbus?
And didn't you recently post inaccurate and false information about the relative employment (not unemployment) rates in Cleveland versus Cincinnati, refusing to either substantiate your "factual" claim or even retract it?
You've backed me into a corner only in your own pitiful imagination.
Let's get it straight. I didn't accuse Maxmodder of doing anything that I didn't repeatedly document that he actually was doing. Yours and Maxmodder's minds must share some linked genetic heritage as you both are fond of ridiculous statements with no basis in fact, yet you defend your baloney like angry pit bulls.
I do agree that many city vs. city discussions are ridiculous, especially including this one. The only redeeming value of these discussions is learning more about other cities. That's tough when threads are populated by those who make unsubstantiated "factual" claims, or make statements that a superior mass transit system (Maxmodder's recent gem) is of no substantial merit when comparing metropolitan areas.
Have you noticed that none of the NO advocates have discussed the relative economics of NO vs. Cleveland, a favorite ploy, including for you, of Cleveland bashers in other CD threads. If someone bothered to check out median per capita income, I suspect NO proponents would be embarrassed. Note that I haven't bothered yet, but this thread is sufficiently annoying that I may yet enter that worthy subject of comparison.
And nobody has touched my earlier post about the threat to NO's continued existence posed by rising sea levels. Some day in the not far future, tourist agencies may advocate, like for Venice, a visit to NO while it's still here. Of course, there's a possibility that NO may talk the federal government into building Netherlands-like levee systems to save NO, but will the bankrupt-threatened federal government provide such aid without substantial financial participation from NO and the state of LA. And are others even in LA, or even NO, willing to share the financial burden? NO and LA citizens weren't willing to share the burden even when they knew NO levees were insufficient to withstand a major hurricane, and then shared in the $200 billion provided by the federal government to resurrect the city. Doesn't that, as an Ohioan, just thrill you???
There's a difference between bashing and posting substantiated facts. Even if you can't fathom the difference, hopefully others reading this thread will understand the difference.
If not, I don't really care, but don't expect me or other Cleveland posters to be shamed by our statements about Cleveland, let alone have any respect for the likes of you or Maxmodder.
Come on, the constant claims that Beachwood Place, the most high-end mall in NEO is going downhill is nothing but veiled racism, because black people shop there too. The mall is expanding, has renovated numerous times in recent years, and has the only Nordstrom and Saks in NEO. It is not declining. Ooooh but BLACK PEOPLE shop there. It must be going downhill, because that's what the narrative says.
There's an old Cleveland and a New Cleveland. The Old Cleveland is the from the era of White Flight, and blue collar disinvestment. They hate everything urban, love everything suburban, and are afraid of the city. New Clevelanders are more educated and worldly. They love the city, don't like the suburbs, and realize that Cleveland is not as bad or scary and dangerous as their parents told them. They see the potential, and are DOING THINGS to bring that potential out. Many of the Cleveland ex-pats are Old Cleveland who sit around moaning about the city's declining, and running away when black people move to their neighborhood. Good riddance to them. The New Clevelanders are bringing this city back, the first step is purging it of the negativity, apathy, and racism of the Old Clevelanders.
I'm not even going to get into that whole Beachwood mall debacle with you. You're now trying to derail this thread with your attempts to discredit people that lived in Cleveland for 28 years. Not going to happen. The bottom line is that several criminal incidents have occurred there, and there is much commentary in past links that I've provided from former shoppers there and what they think of the place. I don't know the races of those who committed these crimes because it doesn't matter. I never mentioned who shopped there, what I said was that literally no one in my vast social network that resides in NEO both white and black shops there. Maybe they don't feel like getting ran over by a jeep that comes barreling into Saks? But keep posting all the great things about Beachwood and it's expansions which have no bearing on the decisions made by those folks to not shop there. I don't need to convince you of anything, I already know the truth based on actual real life experience.
This whole "anti suburban mindset" is comedic. Yes, let's tell families that they should move to Cleveland and send their kids to crappy Cleveland public schools or make them pay for expensive private schools so that the hipsters who pay for overprice apartments won't think of them as racists. There was a recent posting about someone relocating to Cleveland and guess where they settled. Hudson, the very type of suburb that supposedly is home to those "ex-pats" that you attempt to criticize.
Anyways.... New Orleans > Cleveland.
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