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The reason why I know this in addition to my close relationship with the employees and personally knowing the 3 that took public transportation is because I had access to the total head count at the office, and also access to the record showing the number of parking permits issued. Surely you can figure it out from here on your own?
The justification of my claim matters not. If I tell you only 3 people took public transportation at my former workplace, it's because only 3 people took public transportation!
Somehow, I knew that you would eventually say that you had access to something like the parking permits or that you knew all hundreds of employees sufficiently well to remember their commuting habits.
Here's what I do know. Many persons working in secretarial and other low-paid administrative positions, if they were like the firm where I worked, couldn't afford second cars. Free parking would certainly help, but it wouldn't offset much of the cost of driving.
I simply don't believe your 3 out of hundreds, especially as it has taken you days to explain how you knew this fact and as you once changed your story.
A very biased pro-Clevelander... that's pretty much it.
So do you, Maxmodder, believe that the architecture in NO is better than in Cleveland?
As you know, I don't value your opinion one bit, but I would like to see you express it, as it would give readers of this thread who actually are familiar with both cities and interested in architecture a basis to judge our relative objectivity.
I never said it had nothing to do with racial discrimination, which the migrants did NOT escape, but the reasons were economic first and foremost. Again, the Great Migration was also a phenomenon within the South itself.
The Great Migration escapees did encounter some discrimination in the North, but they were much less subject to lynchings and other extra-legal subjugation. AND THEY COULD VOTE. And, finally, they gained economic freedom and access to a much superior educational system. Inner city schools in the North, at least in Cleveland, actually were fairly excellent until urban sprawl and white flight took hold beginning in the 1950s.
The migrants could eat in many restaurants, and use public drinking fountains. I never heard of segregated public facilities in the North, although some hotels and restaurants discriminated against African Americans. Northern states began passing actual anti-discrimination civil rights laws after WWII, well before national laws in the 1960s. This certainly reflects the power of the right to vote.
Do you deny that discrimination was much less in the North, that educational access was much greater, or that economic and social freedoms were much higher for the migrants in the North than they had experienced in the South? Cleveland suburban school districts with single high schools (almost all of them) never had segregated high schools, in practice or fact to my knowledge.
You seem to think that the only thing that the migrants to the North achieved were better salaries. Is that what you actually believe???
If you were legally subjugated, wouldn't you try to escape to a region where you had much greater economic freedom and opportunity, much less legal discrimination such as in courts, much less social and facility discrimination, and especially where you had the right to vote?
Economics has nothing to do with this discussion just like say....pro football has nothing to do with this discussion. Have you noticed that none of the NO advocates have discussed pro football, sports, or even mentioned that NO won the super bowl in 2009, while the Browns have never won a super bowl, let alone ever been in one?
Why? Because a vast majority of those who live in NO could care less about what Cleveland is doing and what they have or haven't won.
Trust me... no one is actively trying to seek out the respect of biased pro Cleveland apologists that are of minority opinion who do nothing but constantly try to prop up Cleveland.
So you're defining what each city vs. city thread deals with now? King Maxmodder I???
Certainly, economic comparisons is a favorite topic of yours in other city vs. city threads.
The OP's first post certainly emphasized the economy, even though that topic hasn't been discussed because everybody apparently agrees that is a massive given for Cleveland. Peter1948 perhaps disagrees as he has said NO is better in every way.
Post 1:
<<New Orleans and Cleveland both have a lot going for them, and both have major struggles with crime, poverty, race relations, and economy.
How do these two cities stack up to each other on economy, housing stock, parks/nature, arts/culture, cost of living, quality of life, urban neighborhoods, suburbs, and diversity/race relations. I'm assuming dining, entertainment and weather will be givens for NO, unless anyone disagrees?>>
You're a Cleveland basher who now wants to define the topic in order to maintain his bash.
Exactly when I thought your posts couldn't manage to become more pathetic, you prove me wrong.
Are you honestly saying that nobody in NO cares if they have a relatively pathetic economy???
Some NO posters obviously are enamored with their city's architecture. Which city, Maxmodder, do you think has the better architecture (see post 233)? I guess your silence perhaps is your answer.
Somehow, I knew that you would eventually say that you had access to something like the parking permits or that you knew all hundreds of employees sufficiently well to remember their commuting habits.
Here's what I do know. Many persons working in secretarial and other low-paid administrative positions, if they were like the firm where I worked, couldn't afford second cars. Free parking would certainly help, but it wouldn't offset much of the cost of driving.
I simply don't believe your 3 out of hundreds, especially as it has taken you days to explain how you knew this fact and as you once changed your story.
Oh you knew that huh? Maybe I should play your hand and ask that you provide us with evidence to support this claim that you knew all along. No one is asking you to believe anything, but don't think you are going to come in here and change anyone's mind that New Orleans isn't greater than Cleveland.
Oh you knew that huh? Maybe I should play your hand and ask that you provide us with evidence to support this claim that you knew all along. No one is asking you to believe anything, but don't think you are going to come in here and change anyone's mind that New Orleans isn't greater than Cleveland.
I've explained repeatedly why your 3 out of hundreds claim is preposterous. Anybody who has ever worked in a downtown area in the U.S. with a good mass transit system will recognize that it is a preposterous assertion, just as was your original claim that persons avoided Cleveland's RTA because of abusive drivers.
The Great Migration escapees did encounter some discrimination in the North, but they were much less subject to lynchings and other extra-legal subjugation. AND THEY COULD VOTE. And, finally, they gained economic freedom and access to a much superior educational system. Inner city schools in the North, at least in Cleveland, actually were fairly excellent until urban sprawl and white flight took hold beginning in the 1950s.
The migrants could eat in many restaurants, and use public drinking fountains. I never heard of segregated public facilities in the North, although some hotels and restaurants discriminated against African Americans. Northern states began passing actual anti-discrimination civil rights laws after WWII, well before national laws in the 1960s. This certainly reflects the power of the right to vote.
Do you deny that discrimination was much less in the North, that educational access was much greater, or that economic and social freedoms were much higher for the migrants in the North than they had experienced in the South?
You seem to think that the only thing that the migrants to the North achieved were better salaries. Is that what you actually believe???
If you were legally subjugated, wouldn't you try to escape to a region where you had the right to vote, much less legal discrimination such as in courts, much less economic discrimination, and especially where you had the right to vote?
Firstly, it should also be remembered that the Great Migration wasn't just about Blacks; Whites were very much part of that phenomenon as well. That is often overlooked.
Secondly, Blacks certainly did gain a certain measure of economic (and civic) freedom in the North, which was my primary point; never did I reduce that to "better salaries." However, while they did not experience de jure segregation in the North, they did experience de facto segregation and were often the targets in labor riots involving Whites and European immigrants.
Thirdly, my point, again, is that the reasons for the migration go beyond racial discrimination, although that was certainly a big part of it. The Great Migration also entailed an exodus of poor Blacks and Whites from the rural South to the rural North.
Fourthly, since I was speaking specifically of New Orleans, I should have made mention of factors specific to that city which was an anomaly in the South (and still is in many ways). Yes it was part of the Jim Crow South and all that came along with that, but due to the presence of several racial/ethnic groups in the city early in its history, there was a level of race mixing that was quite unique. P.B.S. Pinchback of New Orleans served as the first Black governor of in the U.S., and for a time the schools of New Orleans were integrated in the late 1800's. Also, due to their status as mixed race, Creoles in the city experienced a certain level of social independence compared to other Blacks.
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