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Unlike me, you haven't documented your claim. There are numerous architectural gems in Cleveland, such as Tower City/Shaker Heights development, The Arcade, the Cleveland Trust Rotunda, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and the West Side Market, that have no equivalents in NO.
There are many others that I didn't even mention, such as the Huntington Building with one of the largest bank lobbies in the world, Playhouse Square theaters, the Crile Building at the Cleveland Clinic, the renovated Cleveland Museum of Art, a $300 million project that created a 21st century museum that is one of the very best museum spaces in the U.S., etc.
I haven't been in the Huntington Building in decades, but it once had a basement level concourse offering shops and services, and connected by pedestrian tunnels running several blocks north to other office buildings, a very popular option during Cleveland winters. It was an amazing structure, especially at the time of its construction. For decades, the Huntington Building housed the national headquarters of Ernst & Ernst, one of the nation's then "Big Eight" accounting firms, as well as major law firms. Many migrated to Key Tower in the 1990s, dooming the Huntington Building and much of the economic vitality of East 9th St. The massive Key Tower and the also mammoth BP America Building (now 200 Public Square), shifted the economic center of Cleveland back to its Public Square. The old commercial center rapidly is being converted to mixed used development, fueling the rapid growth of downtown residents in Cleveland.
Cesar Pelli's Key Tower on Public Square is one of the tallest buildings in the U.S. and one of the very best buildings constructed in the 1990s in the U.S.
The only performance venue that I've ever visited in the U.S. that compares well to Severance Hall in its art deco splendor is Radio City Music Hall. What is comparable in New Orleans?
I'm curious. Have you ever visited Cleveland? Walked through The Arcade or the Fifth Street Arcades? Strolled East 4th St., the Warehouse District or the Market District on a summer weekend evening? Visited Severance Hall or the Cleveland Museum of Art? Gone to the Terminal Tower observation deck? Shopped at the West Side Market? Taken a rapid to Little Italy or Shaker Square? Strolled the new river walk on the East Flats? If not, what's your opinion worth???
Here's some additional information that reinforces Cleveland's illustrious architectural history (I was timed out):
I haven't been in the Huntington Building in decades, but it once had a basement level concourse offering shops and services, and connected by pedestrian tunnels running several blocks north to other office buildings, a very popular option during Cleveland winters. It was an amazing structure, especially at the time of its construction. For decades, the Huntington Building housed the national headquarters of Ernst & Ernst (subsequently combined with Arthur Young to form Ernst & Young), one of the nation's then "Big Eight" accounting firms, as well as major law firms. Many migrated to Key Tower in the 1990s, dooming the Huntington Building and much of the economic vitality of East 9th St. The massive Key Tower and the also mammoth BP America Building (now 200 Public Square), shifted the economic center of Cleveland back to its Public Square. The old commercial center rapidly is being converted to mixed used development, fueling the rapid growth of downtown residents in Cleveland.
The Ameritrust (now KeyCorp) Tower, the only office building in the world designed by Marcel Breuer, and located across Euclid Ave., Cleveland's "Main Street," from the Huntington Building, has been converted to a luxury hotel and apartment complex. Cleveland's architectural landmarks not only survived, but have provided the bones for a remarkable resurgence that has created a downtown residential community and experience unequaled in Cleveland's history.
I'm not sure if you realize it, but you're actually partially making my point and people are pretty much aware of the histories of the South and the North. Anyway, I think we've digressed enough on a point that originally had to do with New Orleans' role in jazz and Cleveland's role in rock 'n roll which really aren't the same at all. Jazz actually originated in New Orleans whereas Cleveland just came up with the name "rock 'n roll" and hosted the first concert; the genre's origins are in Memphis and the Mississippi Delta.
You're right about the Rock Hall and the origins of rock in Memphis and the Mississippi Delta (also the home of the blues), but it wasn't Rock 'n Roll and a cross-over commercial success until it took off in Cleveland. Would the genre have been labeled "Rock 'n Roll" and smashed through the substantial cultural barriers it faced if it hadn't been for Alan Freed and the unique Cleveland social environment that accepted it and celebrated it, and literally spread its love to other northern cities, such as NYC?
When the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum was just an idea, no city in the U.S. wanted it as much as Cleveland, from political leaders, many of whom grew up loving rock music, down to average citizens. Most importantly, they backed it up with significant funding and insisted on a top flight architect and a prime location. Many also viewed it as reinforcing Cleveland's already substantial musical culture, anchored in University Circle and Oberlin.
Cleveland loved "Rock 'n Roll" literally from the coining of the term, and up through Bruce Springsteen, has been integral to defining and shaping the genre. Most of the country doesn't understand this importance, or the city's love affair with the music, and many still wonder why the Rock Hall is in Cleveland. Literally, nobody else, not Memphis, not Detroit, not New Orleans, really wanted it enough to make a reasonable bid for it.
Most persons don't know that the Rock Hall has a separate library and archives. Cleveland is very serious about music in general, and not only loves rock music, but characteristically also has turned it into an academic pursuit.
I'm not sure if you realize it, but you're actually partially making my point and people are pretty much aware of the histories of the South and the North. Anyway, I think we've digressed enough on a point that originally had to do with New Orleans' role in jazz and Cleveland's role in rock 'n roll which really aren't the same at all. Jazz actually originated in New Orleans whereas Cleveland just came up with the name "rock 'n roll" and hosted the first concert; the genre's origins are in Memphis and the Mississippi Delta.
I don't think that most persons, especially younger Americans, are aware of the level of discrimination in the North, or even about the level of civil discrimination in the South, such as the denial of voting rights, or even that Southern officials would arrest African Americans trying to migrate north, requiring the sale of property in secret.
My posts weren't meant to deny that discrimination existed in the North, but to emphasize that it differed from community to community. E.g., almost all high schools outside of large metropolitan school districts in the North were never segregated, while almost all schools in the South were segregated with horrible consequences. Segregation in large metropolitan school districts resulted from school district lines, and, at least in the City of Cleveland, several largely African-American high schools had minority white enrollments, and vice versa.
I just disagreed with your apparent thesis that the motivations for the Great Migration was the same for African-Americans and for poor whites, and largely economic in both cases. This is best evidenced in the Wikipedia article, when it noted that many professional and skilled African-Americans migrated north in order to benefit from the greater civil liberties and lack of overt segregation.
Cleveland loved "Rock 'n Roll" literally from the coining of the term, and up through Bruce Springsteen, has been integral to defining and shaping the genre.
As a music lover, who grew up on classical Rock 'n Roll, I lived through much of the history that I discussed. Actually, the Cleveland convention bureau is pretty pathetic IMO in promoting what is unique about Cleveland. It's materials often are superficial at best.
I have a signed copy of Deanna Adams' 612-page tome on the subject.
I've also read Joe Mosbrook's Cleveland Jazz History, providing a great introduction to the impact of the Great Migration on Cleveland culture, and making Cleveland a hotbed-in-waiting for rock music.
I've often wondered how amazing it would have been if Cleveland's original Uptown had managed to survive (fortunately, much of Cleveland, unlike in other major American cities, has survived). I actually was too young to enjoy it.
In some ways, Cleveland's great rock clubs filled the void left by the demise of Cleveland's original Uptown district.
I've also studied intensely northeast Ohio's history and its intense devotion to the rights of all men.
Read this Cleveland thread discussing James Garfield's pronounced repudiation of Reconstruction. See especially post 6, if you would be interested in one of the best and bravest American political speeches which you likely have never read or heard.
It was no surprise that Cleveland's youth could establish a northern foothold for an African-American inspired musical genre given the ingrained tolerance of the community and its fascination with all things musical.
I'm always amazed how ignorant C-D posters can so easily amuse themselves by wallowing in their ignorance.
I just disagreed with your apparent thesis that the motivations for the Great Migration was the same for African-Americans and for poor whites, and largely economic in both cases. This is best evidenced in the Wikipedia article, when it noted that many professional and skilled African-Americans migrated north in order to benefit from the greater civil liberties and lack of overt segregation.
I explicitly said what my point was several times, but okay. No need to continue to beat this dead horse which really has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Unlike me, you haven't documented your claim. There are numerous architectural gems in Cleveland, such as Tower City/Shaker Heights development, The Arcade, the Cleveland Trust Rotunda, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and the West Side Market, that have no equivalents in NO.
There are many others that I didn't even mention, such as the Huntington Building with one of the largest bank lobbies in the world, Playhouse Square theaters, the Crile Building at the Cleveland Clinic, the renovated Cleveland Museum of Art, a $300 million project that created a 21st century museum that is one of the very best museum spaces in the U.S., etc.
I haven't been in the Huntington Building in decades, but it once had a basement level concourse offering shops and services, and connected by pedestrian tunnels running several blocks north to other office buildings, a very popular option during Cleveland winters. It was an amazing structure, especially at the time of its construction. For decades, the Huntington Building housed the national headquarters of Ernst & Ernst, one of the nation's then "Big Eight" accounting firms, as well as major law firms. Many migrated to Key Tower in the 1990s, dooming the Huntington Building and much of the economic vitality of East 9th St. The massive Key Tower and the also mammoth BP America Building (now 200 Public Square), shifted the economic center of Cleveland back to its Public Square. The old commercial center rapidly is being converted to mixed used development, fueling the rapid growth of downtown residents in Cleveland.
Cesar Pelli's Key Tower on Public Square is one of the tallest buildings in the U.S. and one of the very best buildings constructed in the 1990s in the U.S.
The only performance venue that I've ever visited in the U.S. that compares well to Severance Hall in its art deco splendor is Radio City Music Hall. What is comparable in New Orleans?
I'm curious. Have you ever visited Cleveland? Walked through The Arcade or the Fifth Street Arcades? Strolled East 4th St., the Warehouse District or the Market District on a summer weekend evening? Visited Severance Hall or the Cleveland Museum of Art? Gone to the Terminal Tower observation deck? Shopped at the West Side Market? Taken a rapid to Little Italy or Shaker Square? Strolled the new river walk on the East Flats? If not, what's your opinion worth???
New Orleans architecture can't be duplicated, and I'm sure the architecture in Cleveland is pretty much similar to a lot of new modern architecture across the US. I mean how is the Key Tower any different from the Bank of America buildings in Charlotte and Atlanta? Matter of fact, let's forget about the CBD for a moment, regarding the overall aesthetic appeal, instead of just individual architectural design, I don't think Cleveland comes close.
I personally don't believe Cleveland is known for it's architecture; I'd go so far to say cities like Savannah, San Francisco, Mobile and Charleston have better architecture.
I personally don't believe Cleveland is known for it's architecture; I'd go so far to say cities like Savannah, San Francisco, Mobile and Charleston have better architecture.
That's just it: your "belief" versus fact; (as in what people in the know and architecture critics say).
Perhaps the better question is, does New Orleans have anything like this:
I personally don't believe Cleveland is known for it's architecture; I'd go so far to say cities like Savannah, San Francisco, Mobile and Charleston have better architecture.
90% of Americans would agree with you. Mobile has unique architecture but it's a far smaller area than Cleveland.
Most people would include Chicago, Philly, Boston, and probably Cincinnati above Cleveland as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf
That's just it: your "belief" versus fact; (as in what people in the know and architecture critics say).
Perhaps the better question is, does New Orleans have anything like this:
And most people choose New Orleans easily in this case.
There was some nice areas there but nothing at all as unique as New Orleans. Much of what I saw seemed like it could be in another Midwestern or northeastern city. New Orleans most closely resembles cities in the Caribbean or southern Europe.
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