Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
2. I was there for a 2 days in October on business, stayed an extra week with a friend who graduated CIA and stayed in Cleveland as a graffiti designer, making me one of the 17 million people who visited Cleveland in 2015 (which is below Cincinnati, Indianapolis, St Louis, Kansas City, Minneapolis, and many others). Before that, I have visited Cleveland in 1999, 2008 and 2011. Uncertain what my presence has to do with Clevelands status as a "tourist destination", but I enjoyed my time there and always have. Would love to get back soon.
What's your source of visitations by city?
Graffiti designer? That was a new one. I had to look it up!!!
All of those cities, with the exception of Orlando, are far larger than New Orleans and many of those tourists are there for business purposes only, New Orleans doesn't have the benefit of an economy that large.
I hope you're not including me. Cleveland is a major city, I think everyone knows that here, but to compare it's culture, architecture, and urbanism to New Orleans (which is always mentioned in the same breath as New York, San Francisco, Chicago, Boston, Miami, Philly, and DC), doesn't make sense. Cleveland does plenty better than New Orleans but not many cities will win against New Orleans when you try to argue culture, architecture, and walkability.
Now we know just how deluded you are, as I've never heard anybody make that comparison. NO is a destination for the following reasons.
1) to drink ("go" cups, largely illegal elsewhere in the U.S., but amazingly just legalized in some entertainment districts in Ohio by the allegedly socially conservative state legislature and Gov. John Kasich)
I love New Orleans, but I've never heard anybody claim it was a center of high culture and urbanism in the same way as the cities that you've mentioned. It's certainly not a center of urbanism, as it is a city with many relative deficiencies, including mass transit. New Orleans is more akin to Las Vegas, and arguably inferior to it in 1, 3, and 4 above, yes, even no. 3. As for 2, LV has much more robust entertainment options than NO. I don't believe you can have a walkable city without relatively good mass transit.
And to argue that NO's architecture is in the same league with those cities, is, once again delusional to a major degree. BTW, I wouldn't put Miami in the same league with those cities either, but I would add Los Angeles to that list.
Now we know just how deluded you are, as I've never heard anybody make that comparison. NO is a destination for the following reasons.
1) to drink ("go" cups, largely illegal elsewhere in the U.S., but amazingly just legalized in some entertainment districts in Ohio by the allegedly socially conservative state legislature and Gov. John Kasich)
I love New Orleans, but I've never heard anybody claim it was a center of high culture and urbanism in the same way as the cities that you've mentioned. It's certainly not a center of urbanism, as it is a city with many relative deficiencies, including mass transit. New Orleans is more akin to Las Vegas, and arguably inferior to it in 1, 3, and 4 above, yes, even no. 3. As for 2, LV has much more robust entertainment options than NO. I don't believe you can have a walkable city without relatively good mass transit.
And to argue that NO's architecture is in the same league with those cities, is, once again delusional to a major degree. BTW, I wouldn't put Miami in the same league with those cities either, but I would add Los Angeles to that list.
I am not saying that it beats any of these cities but some people do prefer New Orleans when it comes to culture, architecture, food, for vacation, etc than those cities I mentioned. I don't think the same is true for Cleveland.
I don't think it's delusional to compare New Orleans architecture to that of San Francisco, Philadelphia, Chicago, or Boston. Same with culture or food.
I am not saying that it beats any of these cities but some people do prefer New Orleans when it comes to culture, architecture, food, for vacation, etc than those cities I mentioned. I don't think the same is true for Cleveland.
I don't think it's delusional to compare New Orleans architecture to that of San Francisco, Philadelphia, Chicago, or Boston. Same with culture or food.
In high culture and architecture, NO is not in the same league with those cities, let alone Cleveland.
Perhaps do a city vs. city poll asking the question if you dare find out what is believed by others. I would be surprised if many posters even on C-D would take you seriously.
I don't think it's delusional to compare New Orleans architecture to that of San Francisco, Philadelphia, Chicago, or Boston. Same with culture or food.
In high culture and architecture, NO is not in the same league with those cities, let alone Cleveland.
Perhaps do a city vs. city poll asking the question if you dare find out what is believed by others. I would be surprised if many posters even on C-D would take you seriously.
New Orleans always does well in those polls. I'm not starting a thread just because of this disagreement. New Orleans is winning very decidedly in this poll so...
New Orleans always does well in those polls. I'm not starting a thread just because of this disagreement. New Orleans is winning very decidedly in this poll so...
Also, I said culture. Not high culture.
Yes, this is a poll comparing New Orleans with favorite whipping-boy Cleveland, constantly and unfairly abused by bashers such as Peter1948, who argued that New Orleans is better in "every way," except by general acknowledgement economy, major league baseball, mass transit, and high culture (art museums, orchestra, theater). In housing stock quality, I suspect that Greater Cleveland also trumps NO, even in affordability.
Nobody even wants to discuss that, absent a mammoth federal public works project that is unlikely given the sorry federal fiscal condition, and huge coastal infrastructure needs in just FL and NYC, that New Orleans likely will be under water within somewhere between three and ten decades, depending on which scientists are proven right.
This poll didn't even ask whether it was measuring whether NO is a better place to visit, or a better place to live.
If somebody wants to buy a house and invest in a future in NO, they should be prepared to take a bath, literally.
Persons interested in old, charming architecture have many options besides NO. NO's "Big Easy" reputation, food, etc., and (for the likes of me) historical sites, set it apart from that competition.
Yet it's preposperous to argue IMO that old French, Creole architecture, is better than the more functional, monumental and often century-old architecture of the likes of Cleveland, architecture such as the likes of Severance Hall, The Arcade, Cleveland Trust Rotunda, West Side Market, and Playhouse Square theaters, and, unlike even the old architecture in NO, is cost prohibitive to duplicate given the immense level of craftsmanship. I'll repeat that the monumental undertaking that now is Tower City, the Landmark Office Complex (now Sherwin Williams national headquarters), and Shaker Heights, does not have its equal anywhere in the U.S., to my knowledge. As it was undertaken just before the onset of the Great Depression, this undertaking bankrupted the Vans, who had built one of the most powerful financial empires in the U.S., controlling at their peak 30,000 miles of railroad.
Few persons outside of Cleveland are aware of this story, let alone the magnificence and audacity of the Vans' undertaking (consider that, just as an afterthought, they built the tallest building in the world, for two decades outside of NYC). For those, such as myself, who are well aware of the outcome, who have been amazed both by the architecture of Tower City and individual homes in SH, let alone the immense vision and planning chomps, it's tough to stomach the relative praise heaped on NO architecture. Thanks largely to the Vans, you can take a rapid train to Tower City and use an enclosed pedestrian walkway to access Quicken Loans Arena (NBA and AHL) and Progressive Field (MLB). That's a big league architectural amenity that you'll find in perhaps no other U.S. city, certainly not NO. And the Waterfront rail line connects Tower City to a station at First Energy Field (NFL), even though it's only a 10-minute and very enjoyable walk. And yes, get this, Cleveland's airport has a Red Line rail station and is connected directly to Tower City (Cleveland was the first U.S. city to accomplish this direct connection), a comparative luxury versus NO.
When you start looking for more modern architectural landmarks by famous architects, NO isn't remotely in the same league as Cleveland. Just consider I.M. Pei's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum, Cesar Pelli's Key Center, Frank Gehry's Peter B. Lewis Building, or Rafael Vinoly's amazing renovation and expansion of the Cleveland Museum of Art into a premier 21st century, world-class art museum. You and others somehow have no appreciation of how these modern architectural triumphs serve, energize and elevate a community.
I repeat, sheer ignorance raising NO architecture above Cleveland. And yet you and others not only would elevate NO not only above Cleveland, but put NO on par with San Francisco, Boston, and Chicago, and originally NYC and DC. This is far, far beyond delusional.
Most houses in Shaker Heights sell at a fraction of replacement cost, as nobody, except the extremely wealthy, would build such houses in this day and age. Extremely expensive slate roofs still are the norm in SH.
If you visit East 4th St., Cleveland's Market District, Warehouse District or even the new Uptown District, you'll still find great urban charm and energy at the right times. And, unlike in NO, these very walkable districts are extremely well connected by mass transit, even though in the case of the Warehouse District and East 4th St. in the Gateway District, only a 5-minute walk separates them.
As someone who has walked many times from the Hilton to the French Quarter, I don't consider NO very walkable, especially after dark or on hot, humid summer days.
And no, the French Quarter is not always hopping. Sometimes on Bourbon Street, the bars are empty, the streets are deserted, and jazz does not fill the air.
Is NO a better tourist destination than Cleveland. Yes, definitely, especially because at some point in the not too distant future, it perhaps is doomed.
As a place to live, Cleveland beats it hands down, regardless of the results of this poll, if anybody cares about making a living, general quality of schools (including suburbs), and cultural amenities such as a world-class art museum, world-class orchestra, and one of the very best theater districts in the U.S., if not the world. If you want major league baseball, Cleveland also tops NO.
Yes, this is a poll comparing New Orleans with favorite whipping-boy Cleveland, constantly and unfairly abused by bashers such as Peter1948, who argued that New Orleans is better in "every way," except by general acknowledgement economy, major league baseball, mass transit, and high culture (art museums, orchestra, theater). In housing stock quality, I suspect that Greater Cleveland also trumps NO, even in affordability.
Nobody even wants to discuss that, absent a mammoth federal public works project that is unlikely given the sorry federal fiscal condition, and huge coastal infrastructure needs in just FL and NYC, that New Orleans likely will be under water within somewhere between three and ten decades, depending on which scientists are proven right.
This poll didn't even ask whether it was measuring whether NO is a better place to visit, or a better place to live.
If somebody wants to buy a house and invest in a future in NO, they should be prepared to take a bath, literally.
Persons interested in old, charming architecture have many options besides NO. NO's "Big Easy" reputation, food, etc., and (for the likes of me) historical sites, set it apart from that competition.
Yet it's prosperous to argue IMO that old French, Creole architecture, is better than the more functional, century-old architecture of the likes of Cleveland, architecture such as Severance Hall, The Arcade, Cleveland Trust Rotunda, and Playhouse Square theaters, that, unlike even the old architecture in NO is cost prohibitive to duplicate given the immense level of craftsmanship.
Most houses in Shaker Heights sell at a fraction of replacement cost.
If you visit East 4th St., Cleveland's Market District, Warehouse District or even the new Uptown District, you'll still find great urban charm and energy at the right times. And, unlike in NO, these very walkable districts are extremely well connected by mass transit.
As someone who has walked many times from the Hilton to the French Quarter, I don't consider NO very walkable, especially after dark or on hot, humid summer days.
And no, the French Quarter is not always hopping. Sometimes on Bourbon Street, the bars are empty, the streets are deserted, and jazz does not fill the air.
Is NO a better tourist destination than Cleveland. Yes, definitely, especially because at some point in the not too distant future, it perhaps is doomed.
As a place to live, Cleveland beats it hands down, regardless of the results of this poll, if anybody cares about making a living, general quality of schools (including suburbs), and cultural amenities such as a world-class art museum, world-class orchestra, and one of the very best theater districts in the U.S., if not the world. If you want major league baseball, Cleveland also tops NO.
This seems to be what people are accusing people like you and me of claiming. However, absolutely nowhere has anyone debated this. My point, and I believe your point, is that Cleveland is quite severely underrated in a lot of the categories that people say are so obviously in New Orleans' favor.
Just to take the most obvious example: Is the French Quarter remarkable? Yes. Does Cleveland have an equivalent? No. Are there districts in Cleveland, however, with incredible architecture that are pedestrian-friendly and lively with a lot going on? Absolutely. I think a lot of people, such as annie_himself, would eat their words if they ever bothered to go to Little Italy for the Feast of the Assumption, or Gordon Square for Dyngus Day (quick New Orleans! Tell me what Dyngus Day is without googling it), or Brite Winter, or Ingenuity Fest, or Rock Hall summer concert series, or Parade the Circle, Hessler Street Fair, Wade Oval Wednesdays, Solstice at CMA, LITERALLY ANY concert at Severance or Blossom (this idea that Jazz is somehow superior to Classical music is subjective), Night Market in Asiatown, etc (I could go on and on and on).
Of course, nobody knows what I'm talking about. Because the fact of the matter is that they don't know anything about Cleveland. Peter1948 and annie_himself and others consider it blasphemy to say that Cleveland might not be as backwards and boring as they want to think it is to make themselves feel better about wherever they are. However, people such as annie_himself, have already clearly stated that they are not interested in Cleveland, don't care to read about it, don't care to visit, yet for some inexplicable reason, find it imperative to inject their ignorance into the conversation, all while saying that I am the ignorant one. The cognitive dissonance is incredible. I have never said that I think Cleveland is "better" than New Orleans (if anyone thinks otherwise, please quote me in your response). All I'm contending is that in many ways, Cleveland is not getting a fair hearing here. Whether or not a place is better, is subjective and every individual is going to gravitate in unique ways. But to so simply brush a city like Cleveland aside, is a mistake. I'm only recommending that people consider other views- I don't understand the resistance to learning new things that I see all over this forsaken forum.
New Orleans is winning the poll as of right now.So the majority has spoken.
The majority has no bearing on what is accurate.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
