Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I was just clarifying why (if true - I did not verify and I haven't seen a source) ATL has more riders per station.
Feel free to carry on as you were.
Sorry for attacking but it just seemed so obvious.The other reason is ,it get old telling people with facts and they still want to come up with excuses.Why the facts dont support what they thought was true.
Especially when it tells you the parameter right there.
You came in late without even reading just a few post before yours that had the link and information which might as well be like someone saying "water is wet.
Anybody that can Google or has been to more than one city knows the difference in what systems are more elaborate or used.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,486 posts, read 14,999,411 times
Reputation: 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
No, none of those neighborhoods are public transit oriented.
I could just start a "Yes they are" match, but a picture presents a better:
Area circled in red is the southside (which also includes the westside and three independent southside cities as they are included in the Greater Southside part of Atlanta) I was referring to. Each blue line represents a public transit line (for an interactive map of what those lines are, go here). As you can see, it has by far the most heavily concentrated transit coverage of any section of the City of Atlanta outside the central core. There are 12 MARTA subway stops and around 50 bus routes at the moment, and all of those bus routes connect directly to those 12 train station. If we're lucky on Nov 4 a few streetcar and light rail lines in the future.
I shouldn't have to say it, but clearly you can see getting around that part of Atlanta without a car isn't a problem at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
There is no Atlanta neighborhood where most people use transit. In fact no neighborhood comes close, and car ownership dominates in every neighborhood.
Car ownership and transit usage aren't two mutually exclusive things. I for instance own a car, but exclusive take transit to work and most day time activities on the weekend. Should my transit usage not count?
Anyway, I am not certain where you are getting your data about no neighborhood in Atlanta car ownership rates. Seriously, I couldn't find a resource so if you have one please share. Here is what I did find:
In this neighborhood, two thirds of the residents use a means other than their own car to get to work:
And on and on (I won't go neighborhood by neighborhood because Atlanta has a lot of neighborhoods.) Bottom line, if you going to come with this argument, use data and not just your hunches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
LOL, sure. Hong Kong has the highest transit share on earth, yet has traffic-choked streets.
I've been all over Asia, and every city has two things in common: Great street food and seriously crappy traffic. Except Japan, they do thing differently. Either way it goes, this isn't really an apple to apples comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
Manhattan has the highest transit share in North America, yet has traffic-choked streets.
If you've spent any amount of time in Manhattan (and not just the touristy areas) you would know that the traffic there isn't caused by the people who live there driving their calls. It is mainly caused by taxis, buses, people driving through to go elsewhere, and commuters from outside the borough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
And there's no traffic in Detroit, I guess that means, according to you, Detroit has massively high transit usage.
We all know that Detroit has barely any transit coverage and a severe lack of jobs in the city proper. Don't be cheeky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
You probably aren't seeing heavy traffic in South Atlanta because it's, for the most part a run-down, undesirable part of town; essentially the "hood", not because every single person in South Atlanta is riding the bus. In the U.S. those types of neighborhoods rarely have heavy street traffic, because there is nothing to attract outsiders.
I'm not sure at what point I said every single person road the bus, but rather transit usage is very high in the district. From people going to work to kids going to school, MARTA is seen as useful tool more so than in other part of Atlanta. As for the jobs comment, you do realize that a very large portion of the 70,000 people that work at the Airport live on the Southside. All they have to do to get to work is hop on a bus or walk to the train, and take the train right to work. Every single school on the southside is directly on a bus route or near a train station, so it is more common to see kids using the train to go to and from school that way.
But lets go back to your "hood" comment. A statement like this is born of the ignorance of not knowing about the place, and the hubris of writing off an area because of the socio-economic status. Are there are run down hood areas on the Southside, yes. However, it isn't completely that way. Believe or not, most of it is filled with fairly nice working and lower middle class neighborhoods. There are even a few very rich areas like Cascade Heights.
Even with all of that, let's say the entire area was a rundown wasteland hood (it isn't), wouldn't that be the very area that should have the best transit coverage and highest usage. Thanks for validating my statement about it not counting since it isn't about how cool hipsters use it.
I could just start a "Yes they are" match, but a picture presents a better:
Area circled in red is the southside (which also includes the westside and three independent southside cities as they are included in the Greater Southside part of Atlanta) I was referring to. Each blue line represents a public transit line (for an interactive map of what those lines are, go here). As you can see, it has by far the most heavily concentrated transit coverage of any section of the City of Atlanta outside the central core. There are 12 MARTA subway stops and around 50 bus routes at the moment, and all of those bus routes connect directly to those 12 train station. If we're lucky on Nov 4 a few streetcar and light rail lines in the future.
I shouldn't have to say it, but clearly you can see getting around that part of Atlanta without a car isn't a problem at all.
Car ownership and transit usage aren't two mutually exclusive things. I for instance own a car, but exclusive take transit to work and most day time activities on the weekend. Should my transit usage not count?
Anyway, I am not certain where you are getting your data about no neighborhood in Atlanta car ownership rates. Seriously, I couldn't find a resource so if you have one please share. Here is what I did find:
In this neighborhood, two thirds of the residents use a means other than their own car to get to work:
And on and on (I won't go neighborhood by neighborhood because Atlanta has a lot of neighborhoods.) Bottom line, if you going to come with this argument, use data and not just your hunches.
I've been all over Asia, and every city has two things in common: Great street food and seriously crappy traffic. Except Japan, they do thing differently. Either way it goes, this isn't really an apple to apples comparison.
If you've spent any amount of time in Manhattan (and not just the touristy areas) you would know that the traffic there isn't caused by the people who live there driving their calls. It is mainly caused by taxis, buses, people driving through to go elsewhere, and commuters from outside the borough.
We all know that Detroit has barely any transit coverage and a severe lack of jobs in the city proper. Don't be cheeky.
I'm not sure at what point I said every single person road the bus, but rather transit usage is very high in the district. From people going to work to kids going to school, MARTA is seen as useful tool more so than in other part of Atlanta. As for the jobs comment, you do realize that a very large portion of the 70,000 people that work at the Airport live on the Southside. All they have to do to get to work is hop on a bus or walk to the train, and take the train right to work. Every single school on the southside is directly on a bus route or near a train station, so it is more common to see kids using the train to go to and from school that way.
But lets go back to your "hood" comment. A statement like this is born of the ignorance of not knowing about the place, and the hubris of writing off an area because of the socio-economic status. Are there are run down hood areas on the Southside, yes. However, it isn't completely that way. Believe or not, most of it is filled with fairly nice working and lower middle class neighborhoods. There are even a few very rich areas like Cascade Heights.
Even with all of that, let's say the entire area was a rundown wasteland hood (it isn't), wouldn't that be the very area that should have the best transit coverage and highest usage. Thanks for validating my statement about it not counting since it isn't about how cool hipsters use it.
Oh and look here.From another thread on top trnasit systems:
URBAN AREAS/ PUBLIC TRANSIT TRIPS PER CAPITA
New York-Newark, NY-NJ-CT 229.8
San Francisco-Oakland, CA 131.5
Washington, DC-VA-MD 99.6
Athens-Clarke County, GA 99.5
Boston, MA-NH-RI 94.3
Urban Honolulu, HI 88.4
Champaign, IL 87.4
State College, PA 85.0
Chicago, IL-IN 74.7
Philadelphia, PA-NJ-DE-MD 67.8
Iowa City, IA 66.0
Seattle, WA 63.6
Portland, OR-WA 58.4
Gainesville, FL 56.8
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA 54.9
Davis, CA 52.2
Bellingham, WA 49.6
Baltimore, MD 47.4
Eugene, OR 46.5
Ann Arbor, MI 44.4
Durham, NC 43.4
Salt Lake City-West Valley City, UT 42.2
Denver-Aurora, CO 41.1
Harrisonburg, VA 40.7
Blacksburg, VA 40.0
Santa Barbara, CA 37.9
Pittsburgh, PA 37.8
Lansing, MI 37.3
Madison, WI 37.0
Lafayette, IN 36.5
Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN-WI 34.9
Seaside-Monterey, CA 34.7
San Diego, CA 34.2
Las Vegas-Henderson, NV 33.9
Williamsburg, VA 33.6
Lawrence, KS 33.2
Santa Cruz, CA 33.1
Morgantown, WV 32.4
Milwaukee, WI 32.1
Bloomington, IN 31.7
Hanford, CA 31.3
Olympia-Lacey, WA 30.2
Spokane, WA 30.1
Miami, FL 30.1 Atlanta, GA 29.9
Buffalo, NY 28.9
Cleveland, OH 28.3
Albany-Schenectady, NY 27.3
Duluth, MN-WI 26.7
Flagstaff, AZ 26.6
Burlington, VT 26.0
San Jose, CA 25.9
New Orleans, LA 25.7
Rochester, NY 25.3
Syracuse, NY 25.1
San Antonio, TX 24.8
Tucson, AZ 24.2
Austin, TX 23.7
St. Louis, MO-IL 23.4
Muncie, IN 22.0
St. Cloud, MN 21.7
Grand Rapids, MI 21.5
Reno, NV-CA 21.4
Charlotte, NC-SC 20.9
Lynchburg, VA 20.8
Logan, UT 20.8
El Paso, TX-NM 20.5
Phoenix-Mesa, AZ 20.0
Johnstown, PA 19.9
Bremerton, WA 19.5
Hartford, CT 19.4
Orlando, FL 19.0
Albuquerque, NM 19.0
Springfield, MA-CT 18.9
Kennewick-Pasco, WA 18.7
Corpus Christi, TX 18.7
Charleston, WV 18.3
Providence, RI-MA 18.2
Port Huron, MI 18.2
Erie, PA 18.2
Anchorage, AK 18.0
Sacramento, CA 17.8
Greensboro, NC 17.8
Lexington-Fayette, KY 17.6
New Haven, CT 17.5
Flint, MI 17.5
Tallahassee, FL 17.5
Fresno, CA 17.3
Bloomington-Normal, IL 17.1
Salem, OR 16.7
Houston, TX 16.4
Lubbock, TX 16.3 Savannah, GA 16.1
Rochester, MN 15.9
Decatur, IL 15.8
Louisville/Jefferson County, KY-IN 15.7
Missoula, MT 15.6
Portland, ME 15.0
New Bedford, MA 15.0
Chico, CA 15.0
Binghamton, NY-PA 14.8 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 14.7
Kalamazoo, MI 14.7
Dayton, OH 14.6
Stockton, CA 14.2
Waterbury, CT 14.1
Wenatchee, WA 14.0
Columbia, MO 13.9
Portsmouth, NH-ME 13.5
Laredo, TX 13.4
Davenport, IA-IL 13.3
Santa Clarita, CA 13.3
Indio-Cathedral City, CA 13.3
Reading, PA 13.1
Oshkosh, WI 13.1
Bridgeport-Stamford, CT-NY 13.1
Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN 12.8
Santa Fe, NM 12.8
Oxnard, CA 12.7
Riverside-San Bernardino, CA 12.7
Virginia Beach, VA 12.5
Columbus, OH 12.5
Akron, OH 12.4
Tampa-St. Petersburg, FL 12.3
Santa Rosa, CA 12.3
Fargo, ND-MN 12.2
Peoria, IL 12.1
La Crosse, WI-MN 12.0
Kankakee, IL 11.7
Roanoke, VA 11.6
Jacksonville, FL 11.6
Springfield, IL 11.5
Palm Coast-Daytona Beach-Port Orange, FL 11.3
Detroit, MI 11.3
Bakersfield, CA 11.1
Shreveport, LA 11.1
Utica, NY 11.0
Albany, GA 11.0
Kansas City, MO-KS 10.9
Eau Claire, WI 10.8
Yuba City, CA 10.7
Yakima, WA 10.7
Lancaster-Palmdale, CA 10.4
Modesto, CA 10.4
Kenosha, WI-IL 10.4
Leominster-Fitchburg, MA 10.3
Sioux City, IA-NE-SD 10.3
Racine, WI 10.3
Antioch, CA 10.1
Des Moines, IA 10.0
Nashville-Davidson, TN 9.9
Canton, OH 9.8
Fort Collins, CO 9.8
Memphis, TN-MS-AR 9.5
Richmond, VA 9.3
Medford, OR 9.2
Lincoln, NE 9.2
Wausau, WI 9.2
Carbondale, IL 9.1
Napa, CA 8.9
Bay City, MI 8.9
York, PA 8.8
Jackson, TN 8.7
Winston-Salem, NC 8.7
Vallejo, CA 8.6
Charleston-North Charleston, SC 8.5
Altoona, PA 8.5
South Bend, IN-MI 8.3
Evansville, IN-KY 8.2
Topeka, KS 8.2
Concord, CA 8.2
Victoria, TX 8.2
Allentown, PA-NJ 8.1
Visalia, CA 8.1
Fairfield, CA 8.0
Sheboygan, WI 7.9
Chattanooga, TN-GA 7.8
College Station-Bryan, TX 7.8
Grand Junction, CO 7.7
Cape Coral, FL 7.7
Bend, OR 7.6
Denton-Lewisville, TX 7.6
Brownsville, TX 7.6
Pueblo, CO 7.5
Redding, CA 7.5
Worcester, MA-CT 7.5
Sarasota-Bradenton, FL 7.5
Sebastian-Vero Beach South-Florida Ridge, FL 7.5
Green Bay, WI 7.4
Macon, GA 7.4
Saginaw, MI 7.3
Janesville, WI 7.3
Great Falls, MT 7.3
Lakeland, FL 7.2
Raleigh, NC 7.2
Sioux Falls, SD 7.2
El Centro-Calexico, CA 7.2
Cedar Rapids, IA 7.1
Scranton, PA 6.9
Indianapolis, IN 6.9
Wilmington, NC 6.9
Santa Maria, CA 6.9
Toledo, OH-MI 6.7
Waldorf, MD 6.7
Victorville-Hesperia, CA 6.7
Little Rock, AR 6.7
Merced, CA 6.7
Rockford, IL 6.5
Palm Bay-Melbourne, FL 6.4
Jackson, MI 6.4
Baton Rouge, LA 6.4
Harrisburg, PA 6.3
Fort Wayne, IN 6.3
Panama City, FL 6.2
Frederick, MD 6.1
Knoxville, TN 6.0
Waco, TX 6.0
Appleton, WI 5.9
Billings, MT 5.8
Omaha, NE-IA 5.8
Lafayette, LA 5.7
Wheeling, WV-OH 5.6
Dover-Rochester, NH-ME 5.6
Petaluma, CA 5.6
Norwich-New London, CT-RI 5.5
Danbury, CT-NY 5.5
Lancaster, PA 5.4
Springfield, MO 5.3
Fayetteville, NC 5.3
Waterloo, IA 5.2
Gulfport, MS 5.2
Colorado Springs, CO 5.2
Asheville, NC 5.1
Monessen-California, PA 4.8
Tulsa, OK 4.8
Barnstable Town, MA 4.8
Clarksville, TN-KY 4.7
Huntington, WV-KY-OH 4.6
Holland, MI 4.6
Pensacola, FL-AL 4.6
Lima, OH 4.6
Youngstown, OH-PA 4.5
Bonita Springs, FL 4.5
Lebanon, PA 4.5
Wichita, KS 4.5
Salisbury, MD-DE 4.4
Birmingham, AL 4.4
Greeley, CO 4.3
Terre Haute, IN 4.3
Killeen, TX 4.2
Boise City, ID 4.1
Mobile, AL 4.0
Beaumont, TX 3.9
San Angelo, TX 3.8
Montgomery, AL 3.7
Poughkeepsie-Newburgh, NY-NJ 3.7
Leesburg-Eustis-Tavares, FL 3.5
Sumter, SC 3.5
Bismarck, ND 3.4
Elkhart, IN-MI 3.3
Oklahoma City, OK 3.3
Myrtle Beach-Socastee, SC-NC 3.2
Charlottesville, VA 3.2
Lodi, CA 3.2
Yuma, AZ-CA 3.1
DeKalb, IL 3.0
Ocala, FL 2.8
Texas City, TX 2.6
Columbia, SC 2.6
Dothan, AL 2.4
Newark, OH 2.4
Greenville, SC 2.3
Nashua, NH-MA 2.2
Elizabethtown-Radcliff, KY 2.1
Amarillo, TX 2.1
Jackson, MS 2.0
Huntsville, AL 1.9
Augusta-Richmond County, GA-SC 1.9
Aberdeen-Bel Air South-Bel Air North, MD 1.7
Fort Walton Beach-Navarre-Wright, FL 1.3
Gainesville, GA 1.2
Turlock, CA 1.2
Mission Viejo-Lake Forest-San Clemente, CA 1.2
Florence, AL 1.2
Hickory, NC 1.0
Port St. Lucie, FL 0.9
Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR-MO 0.9
North Port-Port Charlotte, FL 0.8
Spartanburg, SC 0.7
Atlantic City, NJ 0.5
I could just start a "Yes they are" match, but a picture presents a better:
I'm not going to all the points in your previous post, as they're essentially irrelevant. I don't get why you think posting random transit maps or talking about random bus lines or hypothesizing about the ghetto somehow answers the question of whether Atlanta has heavily transit-oriented areas.
Again, there are no areas in Atlanta where transit is the primary mode of mobility. Not even close. There are very few such areas in the U.S. outside of the NYC area, and Atlanta is one of the most auto-dependent major metros in the U.S., so Atlanta doesn't come close to this standard.
The highest transit use in Atlanta is right downtown, and in ghetto-type areas where you have non-choice riders, and in both areas, cars still completely dominate. Atlanta has very limited transit usage.
Oh and look here.From another thread on top trnasit systems:
And this is a perfect illustration of Atlanta's heavy, even extreme, auto-orientation. It's transit usage is closer to 0 than to that of even Seattle, which is also pretty auto-oriented for global standards, and would be a bad place to go car-free.
Granted, Atlanta is hardly alone. Pretty much all the newer metros in the U.S. have the same auto-orientation. As the list shows, many metros are even worse, some far worse.
Only place in the U.S. where it's reasonable to go car-free across large geographies is NYC area. Then there are five or six metros with some limited geographies where it's possible. Outside of these places, cars dominate.
I'm not going to all the points in your previous post, as they're essentially irrelevant. I don't get why you think posting random transit maps or talking about random bus lines or hypothesizing about the ghetto somehow answers the question of whether Atlanta has heavily transit-oriented areas.
Again, there are no areas in Atlanta where transit is the primary mode of mobility. Not even close. There are very few such areas in the U.S. outside of the NYC area, and Atlanta is one of the most auto-dependent major metros in the U.S., so Atlanta doesn't come close to this standard.
The highest transit use in Atlanta is right downtown, and in ghetto-type areas where you have non-choice riders, and in both areas, cars still completely dominate. Atlanta has very limited transit usage.
Where are the statistics to back this up? You keep saying this so authoritatively without presenting any proof.
Where are the statistics to back this up? You keep saying this so authoritatively without presenting any proof.
The Census has vehicle ownership and commuting mode share by Census Tract. You're free to look up any Census Tract in the U.S.
If Atlanta even doubled its public transit commute share (which would be amazing and unprecedented for a U.S. city), it would still be significantly lower than that of places like SF, Chicago, DC, and even those metros have very low public transit usage compared to cities around the world.
The U.S. just doesn't have many transit riders. I think something like 70% of daily rail riders in the U.S. are in the NYC metro. Heck, even the NYC metro, as a whole, doesn't have a amazingly high transit share.
The Census has vehicle ownership and commuting mode share by Census Tract. You're free to look up any Census Tract in the U.S.
In other words, you haven't done the research yourself. Got it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
